Quote (wendigoo @ Jul 11 2011 05:58pm)

does steelrends help barb ww dmg a lot or is dracs ow better?

Quote (hue_two @ Jul 11 2011 11:13am)

ow is better

but vs smiter clegs is better really

Quote (DHA @ Jul 11 2011 01:53pm)

this again...
bvc < Smite

Quote (Juicy_J @ Jul 11 2011 11:53am)

I don't see how a smiter can lose. There's no way a smiter would be standing still or charging. Telesmite is extremely effective against BvCs. Tele at the end of their whirl and hit them a few times. If you're talking BM, then the BvC needs a LT wand just to stand a chance.

I also don't see why there would be a pure smiter. VTs use exactly the same gear, and you don't even need a Foh CTA, seriously. The best VTs will tell you that they seldom use theirs. VT > Barb every day.

Quote (Goomshill @ Jul 4 2011 10:08pm)

In a theoretical setup with absolutely perfect players using perfect chars, a BvC loses far less marginal utility in countering a V/T's foh than a V/T loses by investing in FOH.
In order to counter FOH, a BvC can lose one or both of:
A.) 36 AR per sc -> 11% light resist
B.) Dungos -> T-Gods.

So the barb loses a bit of attack rating, or maybe goes from 50% to 39% DR. Thats the worst case. Against smiters with just 1 point foh or 6/6/4/3/3/3's or non-maxed synergies or conviction or whatever, the barb can keep his dungos and use very few charms


Meanwhile, what does the smiter lose? To be most effective against a barb, he wants to max
Holy Shield
Smite
Fanaticism
Defiance.
Thats 84/101 skill points right there.
To get FOH, you want;
FOH
Holy Shock
Conviction
Thats 68/101 skill points.

Now obviously a V/T doesn't have 152 skill points, so you end up sacrificing something for something. And you'll have to lose Smite effectiveness to get FOH effectiveness.
Even getting conviction from your CTA, you're looking at a build that loses 20 defiance and 2 smite, or 20 smite and 2 defiance, or so on.
Either way, you're sacrificing a fair amount in order to get a powered FOH- or you're not getting a powered FOH, and the barb can counter it without even subbing charms/tgods anyways


Then, beyond building the characters, even when in dueling, any time a pally puts on FOH and comes within range of a barb, sync ww and tele ww provide him an easy way to jump the paladin while conviction is still out.
Its a huge liability to try to be shaving off ~50 hp from a barb with FOH when he might instantaneously appear on top of you whirling away and shave 3000+ HP off you.




But this is stuff I hate- all dumb theorycraft. The best barb against the best pally, a duel that has never happened and there are not nor ever have been people to build such characters to utter perfection on closed or design characters specifically counter to each other in a nash equilibrium, anyway. Back in reality land, theres like 5 people who know how to do anti-barb smiters right and actually put up a good fight. Anyone you meet on JSP or a pub will just fold in half to a brawler when you tear away their ability to shiftsmite with 2x eth lacerators, and ww away. NN for fancy builds or perfect inventories there.

Quote (wendigoo @ 11 Jul 2011 14:16)

think this is how smiter loses or v/t