Quote (DeniedBoB @ Fri, Jul 24 2009, 08:18pm)

Thats what I was thinking..

This zon is the shit, obviously.

I love how everyone just hates on somthing thats not cookiecutter.
Soo fuckin annoying when people do that.

Quote (WhiteReflection @ Tue, 28 Jul 2009, 06:53)

- Pointless debate. 150 IAS is required to hit 8 frame on Hydra bow, 9 frame is too slow for my taste. From IAS calculator, you get 2 frame strafe @ 120 IAS.

[/B]

Quote (WhiteReflection @ Tue, Jul 28 2009, 04:53pm)

Not a bad guide... it has been done before.
Too much colour...

- They really need to make a stickie one because all the current PVM stickie guides lack damage.
I could have bolded the items but they don't really let you edit 30 mins after first post.

The only way you can reach 2fps... on single player... there is no time for transmitting the packets from server to your computer for you to succeed in getting 2fps

- Pointless debate. 150 IAS is required to hit 8 frame on Hydra bow, 9 frame is too slow for my taste. From IAS calculator, you get 2 frame strafe @ 120 IAS.

My zon setup is very identical... only thing is... I am an IRON Frost/Ice Maiden... and I do more damage even in the same amount of time your build does.
Mine is a 9fps build... Deals as much Physical damage as any Phys Bowa... Deals alot of Cold damage near as much as possible for a Frostmaiden.

- Unless you can shoot frost arrow + multie /strafe at the same time, I don't see how your build does more damage than mine. With Atmas, there is really no need for a second damage source. At 8 frame, amp damage triggers frequent enough to kill all physical immunes.

Quote (AyeCaramba @ Wed, Jul 29 2009, 12:48am)

Observations:

1. This zon will kill monsters, and fast

2. Too expensive for my taste / for PvM: The helm and armour are extravagant to say the least for PvM. 7 x 40/15? Sure baby, I'll just go do some magic finding now.
Same efficiency can be reached PvM with much cheaper set up's, but whatever to that.

3. Please stop the strafe speed argument. 2 frame strafe is a myth server side. It exists client side, but all that happens is that you are stuck for the remainder of the strafe time while the server finsihes off the action. Anyone can try it by getting the BP and pressing the RMB once. Now immediately try to move. You will finish firing, but still be locked in place until they have finished firing server side. SP has the same client / server relationship, it's just that the server is your own PC.

4. When strafing a single target, next delay will preclude a large number of the arrows from doing any damage. The exact number will depend on speed and the size of the monster targeted. Provided you hit 85%+ I shouldn't think there is any milage in using GA for bosses other than not being locked in place during the firing.

So the build is fine though expensive, the write up could be better formated, and when someone points out technical issues with your guide / build, then do some research instead of shouting. Anc was right all along, you've pretty much conceded the point, but all I ever saw was abuse even though you were wrong.

7/10 - guide
5/10 - techincal knowledge
3/10 - attitude

Quote (izParagonzi @ Tue, Jul 28 2009, 04:32pm)

Nice one AyeCaramba... you pointed out what needed to be said.
Hmmm... can not find that link that Faelwen sent me about the "NEXT DELAY" information.

Oh well.

Quote

What is NextDelay, and why is it so bad?

NextDelay is a property that activates a hidden "hit timer" that limits how often any attack from that group(i.e. all the skills listed here) can damage a single target. This works similarly to the infamous spell timer, which limits how often any spell in that group can be cast. The difference is that the hit timer doesn't prevent you from attacking, it just sets everyone's(includes you, your minions/merc, other players(hostile/neutral/allied), and their minions/mercs) chance-to-hit that monster (with a hit timer attack) at zero until the timer runs out.

    Here's a list of skills that are affected by NextDelay, and the lengths of them:

    25-Frame Delay (1 second)
    Shock Web
    Blade Sentinel
    Twister
    Tornado

    10-Frame Delay (0.4 seconds)
    Volcano (initial eruption)

    6-Frame Delay (0.24 seconds)
    War Cry
    Grim Ward

    5-Frame Delay (0.2 seconds)
    Fissure
    Volcano (small fireball)

    4-Frame Delay (0.16 seconds)
    Multi Shot
    Strafe
    Lightning Strike
    Chain Lightning
    Nova
    Frost Nova
    Poison Nova
    Shock Wave
    Fist of Heavens (Holy Bolts)
    Wake of Fire
    Claws of Thunder (only 2nd and 3rd charge charges have Next Delay. 1st charge does not trigger Next Delay)
    Phoenix Strike (only 2nd Chain Lightning and 3rd Chaos Orb charge have Next Delay. 1st charge does not trigger Next Delay)
    Dragon Flight
    Battle Cry
    Battle Command
    Battle Orders

    So, the moment a certain skill from the list damages a monster, it prevents every other skill on the list from hitting the said monster for the original skill's NextDelay duration (whether from you or any other character).

Quote (AyeCaramba @ Tue, Jul 28 2009, 12:48pm)

Observations:

1. This zon will kill monsters, and fast
2. Too expensive for my taste / for PvM: The helm and armour are extravagant to say the least for PvM. 7 x 40/15? Sure baby, I'll just go do some magic finding now.
Same efficiency can be reached PvM with much cheaper set up's, but whatever to that.

3. Please stop the strafe speed argument. 2 frame strafe is a myth server side. It exists client side, but all that happens is that you are stuck for the remainder of the strafe time while the server finsihes off the action. Anyone can try it by getting the BP and pressing the RMB once. Now immediately try to move. You will finish firing, but still be locked in place until they have finished firing server side. SP has the same client / server relationship, it's just that the server is your own PC.


So the build is fine though expensive, the write up could be better formated, and when someone points out technical issues with your guide / build, then do some research instead of shouting. Anc was right all along, you've pretty much conceded the point, but all I ever saw was abuse even though you were wrong.

Quote (WhiteReflection @ Tue, Jul 28 2009, 10:44pm)

This build is not that expensive and I have included all the cheap version of substitutes.

A plain 60 IAS/160 ED Archon will get the job done if you can't afford a  Jeweler's XXXX of the Whale.  45 IAS/120 ED helm is almost as good as a  45 IAS/120 ED/30 Dex.  And the rest of gear can be found for extremely cheap except Pravens.

15 IAS/40 ED jewel can be bought for merely 20-25 FG each on US ESCL, cheaper if you buy a 35 pack (you will end up paying 70 fg for 7 x 15 ias/40 ed jewels).

As far as strafe goes, you are going to need 150 IAS to hit the 8 frame multiple shot anyways, which is way over 120 IAS BP already.