That would suffer some ar penalties and a drop in gross damage (yes it'll work). Just stick that lacerator on switch ("W") to amp then go back to pwning them with your two strong weps which makes that amp even better!. You really wont need that extra +3 bo stick or any bo sticks at all. Barbs have massive life. If your well equipped anything over ~2K is masterbation. Your a frenzy barb, your not dueling on this char, and nothing will really put the hurt on you anyhow (the avg hell monsters only hits for aroudn 100 damage, with 200 on the global 5% crit chance)

every other class (and many dont even need this buff) can get by with a "cta" thats usually between ~ level 10-15 bo (20 tops) a barb can 1 point his bo, and have this same level or higher just on his regular gear. To many barbs are chained to the 20 point bo sink.
my hc frenzy/thrower with 1 point bo still has well over 3K life and it seldom falls under 50%. The only time I ever buff up the bo a little bit is when running ubers and organs (lillity is beast) I use amp vs them too and not the weaker tap.

Grief pb + death cs is hawt, Death death is ultimate win, your not splitting up the main source of your cb and ds. amp> lifetap.


ymmv

This post was edited by Master_Zappy on Mar 15 2010 11:59am

Very interesting builds, this and the old thread. Not really sure what I think. I'm no D2 pro, and I won't claim to be, but I'm not sure I totally get or agree with the gear choices. I've been working on a Frenzy build since 1.10 and it's undergone many changes. So far the build has been able to do everything but Chaos Sanctuary. Couldn't do the ubers solo, but could definitely tank for ranged chars or another melee. I'll list the stats/skills/gear/merc stuff here, and see what you think and have to say.

==Stats==
Str 121 (perfect gear), 141 (crappiest gear)
Dex 66 (perfect gear), 86 (crappiest gear)
Energy Not a single point.
Vit Every remaining stat point should be placed into this.

===Max Defense build===
Warcries:
1 to all pre-reqs
20 to Shout
20 to Battle Orders
1 to Battle Cry

Combat Masteries:
20 to Sword Mastery
1 to Increased Stamina
1 to Iron Skin
1 to Increased Speed
1 to Natural Resistance

Combat Skills:
1 to Leap
1 to pre-reqs
20 to Frenzy
Remainder to Berserk

===Max Damage build===
Warcries:
1 to all pre-reqs
1 to Shout
20 to Battle Orders
1 to Battle Cry

Combat Masteries:
20 to Sword Mastery
1 to Increased Stamina
1 to Iron Skin
1 to Increased Speed
1 to Natural Resistance

Combat Skills:
1 to Leap
1 to pre-reqs
20 to Frenzy
20 to Berserk
Remainder to Double Swing

===Gear===
Helm: Upped Arreats socketed with a Pul (Zod if you've got an eth Arreats)
Armor: Fortitude AP
Belt: Nosferatu’s Coil
Gloves: Dracul’s Grasp (Laying of Hands for max dmg build)
Boots: Eth Sandstorm Treks
Rings: Carrion Wind and Ravenfrost (2x Ravenfrost for max dmg build)
Amulet: Metalgrid
Swords: Death PB and Last Wish PB (or swap Last Wish for Breath of the Dying)
Switch Weaps: BO sticks

Now I will also say that I am currently doing some rethinking of things. One being that the CB on this build is overkill, and that less would actually result in quicker killing. My first few builds were dual Death, later I swapped to Last Wish for the Life Tap and Might among other things. I personally think lifetap is a must. Not everything can be leeched from, and it sucks when your leech < damage being done. Lifetap casts and I become near invincible I leech so much. The overlap of LW and Dracs might also seem overkill, but it was done as a guarantee that LT would cast. I also believe having a larger life pool is worth more than the seemingly small damage returns on pumping Str. I let things like enhanced damage and the like take care of that.

This build may not be the absolute fastest melee killer, but he's still quick, and as i said, damn near invincible. Before Hammerdins became popular thanks to enigma, i regularly rescued sorcs who got caught in packs of Souls in the WSK. those packs didn't have shit on me, the Frenzy windup was short, and lifetap/LL came so fast that even if i did start to lose significant life, I was quickly back on track and whupping asses. Witches and their Blood Stars could get scary, but I generally didn't have any problems with dying there either. In the Ubers I think the excess CB was my issue. I could go toe to toe with any of them and bring them to an inch of life and remain alive, but it was eventually a losing battle. I could alway skill UDiablo and UBaal, but UMeph was a problem. DClone was cake. Chaos Sanctuary was my only guaranteed dead zone. In general, might a Defiance merc and might might aura, i was doing ~2.5K dmg per hit, and hitting 25K def, with enough AR to hit anything at or above 80%

And before I forget, here was my merc setup:
Helm: Eth Crown of Thieves
Armor: Eth CoH AP
Weapon: Eth BotD Great Poleaxe

I am genuinely interested in what you have to say. I'm definitely looking at Grief and the offhand CS with that attack speed glitch you've written about. Always went dual PB previously for the most AS.

Helm: gauillaumes offers everything melee charackters needs, arreats is for pvp.
Armor: enigma is just perfect here - you tele cause you are pvm char, you get high strength = damage, and mf.
Gloves: what's the point of draculs? LoH are far superior.
Boots: gores - best melee boots.

Guillaume's is also for pvp

Side by side compare, Guillame's is crap compared to Arreat's. Arreat's has +skills, Guillame's doesn't. Arreat's has higher Def. Arreat's has higher +Str, and has +Dex. Arreats has +Res. Arreat's has bonus AR. Arreat's has LL. Sorry, I don't buy Guillame's for anything but an alright merc helm. nothing more.

Enigma? Why? I don't need or want tele on my barb. He can run faster than most chars can tele once Frenzy winds up, and all i have to do is hit a monster as I run here and there to keep the speed. If I need to "just get from here to there" I leap. I don't MF with my barb. I tank and murder things. LoH are only good for the extra damage against demons (making them good gloves to sub out in some areas). Dracul's bests it in every other way. Gores are also not as good as treks based on lousy stats (by comparison) and worse def. the only thing Gores have on Treks is an extra 10% FRW. Treks add Str and Vit, reduce stamina drain, repair themselves, and give FHR. I'll take my Treks over Gores any day.

35% CB and 15% DS is much much more than those 2 skills/resists/ar/ll and other small adds on arreats!

If you don't mf in various places then ok with enigma, but if it is mf char then enigma will make everything much faster.

Draculs. 5% of lt is to low to rely on, and strength isn't a lot. Ll is nice but you can get a lot of ll easily. I prefer 2x ll/ar/life/str/res rings and guillaumes with cham - that way you get a lot of ll.

What's the point of Sandstorm treks? Stength, vita and fhr? It's not a pvp char - those adds are too little compare to CB and DS which are the most important in pvm melee.

Overall you have defencive barb, while more in pvm it's not really needed.

This post was edited by Sladeinflame7 on Mar 18 2010 04:23pm

All those "small add ons" add up, esp with cries. As for the "little" LL of dracs, it all combines for one big LL, esp. after lifetap procs. FHR is a blessing when in a mob and getting hit a lot, esp. from ranged attackers. I get plenty of CB from Death. In the end, my build with your gear choices vs my gear choices, I'm betting my barb > your barb.

In the end, it's just like performance add ons for a car. Each one only does a little, but together it's a lot.

This post was edited by Red_Chaos1 on Mar 18 2010 04:54pm

Thanks for the guide and all the advice via PM's...once HCL season starts I will provide you some feedback on the over results of your build in an environment where death is not an option.

But your "add on" are defensive mostly. What does + skill gives to a barb? Offensive wise like nothing, only more life/defense/resists and so on. So if i never died my barb with that gear, then i don't need even more resists/skills and so on.
So if you are strong enough to never die then you can get items which will improve your damage a lot, like Loh, guillaumes and gores. Your death gives only 50% CB, while with those items you can get 100%!

Yeah maybe your barb will survive longer but my will hit stronger

This post was edited by Sladeinflame7 on Mar 19 2010 01:57am

thank you slade for helping explain things here, I pm'd him with some more specifics but didnt have the time to respond here promptly.




you will have to try guillaumes to appreciate it, it really is stronger.

the ds/cb on your weapons only works when that weapon hits, it doesnt transfer to the other like ds/cb on equipment, just so that's clear

running negates your defense, so that makes your defiance merc argument completely invalid. you cant run though walls or even jump over most of them so yes enigma is still faster, you're a barb so you get hella fast teleport frames, but fort is much better offensively, so if you dont need the teleport dont bother with enigma.

draculs are not good, they make you do FAR less damage since the lt will override decrep and you lose 350%dmg to demons and tons of fire resists..
stamina and fhr are not an issue for a barb, they have huge stamina pool and fast fhr frames, guillaumes has all the fhr you need.