If you want max block/dr, or even a slightly higher dr (2x ber's in pelt) build, or you want to try 163% fcr, by all means, do it. If thats what floats your boat, hun. But its not something I'd be able to help you with. I've tried all those and I've found the 99/99 glass cannon shaman to be my favorite setup, due in large part to my ability to dodge most attacks with just teleport, timing, and patience. But if your personal playstyle is helped better by tanking it out, well, go for it. But if you are tanking, I think you are doing something terribly terribly wrong, and thats not how you should be playing a shaman in the first place, and so you'll probably not be effective at it.


Like I said before, Shamans have a steep learning curve. I have a budget druid who can duel with the best of em, when I'm using it, but I handed it to a friend once and he died 0-5 against a tals fireball sorc, because he simply did not know how to use the blasted thing. Its something that takes a lot of learning and experience. Lots of players only ever figure out how to use their fire skills, and not really understand how to through bearswipes in there out of the blue. Its sad to see shamans that just teleport around chucking spells like they were some rinky dink fire druid.

My greatest metaphor is that of muhammed ali; fly like a butterfly sting like a bee. A shaman has to use his bear like a boxer uses a jab. You pop in and back out like its nothing, right through their defenses. Its by far the most important thing to learn to use.

Are people seriously talking about this guide?





http://forums.d2jsp.org/index.php?showtopic=32909733&f=87&st=40

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
welcome to the internet. Please mail your sarcasm detector in for repairs

you didn't even use my favorite one "451 damage > 3 damage, so 451 > 3/20/20".
edit: oh my i just read that thread again and realized its the same guy who was in it. Wow, we must have trolled him pretty hardcore for him not to have realized it by now O_o

This post was edited by deathwinger on Aug 11 2009 11:44am

hahahaha idiot

and I mean you

they work a lot better on d2pk cause of the buffed synergies.
I used a 163fcr volcano/fissure build with 6.6k volcano (2.9k physical), 9k fissure, 27k geddon, just to compare stats with what deathwinger's bnet shaman has. I havent tried out a grizzly/volcano shaman build just cause full fire synergies look so attractive on d2pk with the buffs, but it was on my list of things to do although Im inactive on d2 for now.


@deathwinger: pretty clear guide overall, pretty decent build to look at for players wanting to try out a shaman, however I disagree with your assessment of which matchups the player is at an advantage or a disadvantage in. I think dueling "too much" as you put it has given you a skewed perspective on how classes actually match up against a shaman, if pubs are all easy-med, then you can likewise say that a pub shaman will be an easy matchup for any competent player.
Im kinda surprised you put cs zons as easy, Im sure the ones that just walk around and try to cs stab on east are easy, but real cs zons that are quick to move out of the way of fissure/volcano and quick with legit fc I found to be one of the harder matchups for this class - just so hard to get any damage in on them with volcano/fissure because of their evade skills. you can use it against them and evadelock the baddie cs zons with volcano but against good zons ready to wsg walk its hard to get them stuck at all, let alone do damage to them. cs zons were always more frustrating for me to duel than most other matchups.
Some other matchups I don't agree with you as well on your assessment of them, can't talk now though, gotta run, will check this topic back later.

Yes ofc 2800/2855 posts were sarcasm.

You forgot about your trang necro guide that was meni stronk.

Not exactly sure how a 99fcr/no dr/no mb/3500 life/400 absorb cyclone armor druid is supposed to not get instantly raped by anything with an attack but I'm sure this guide is meni stronk also.

Varsity at least had the balls to put down "hard" under most duelers. u r ezpk evry1 cuz meni stronkz

I agree that 'legit farcast' can be a real pain in the bum, but CS is really out of the question. If a zon manages to CS you at melee range, you're doing something terribly wrong. Which means that most duels devolve into zons throwing lightning furies, you throwing fissures. And you're bound to win that. If they don't teleport the duel is trivially easy, but if they do yes they can have a chance. But like you said, legit farcasters can be a pain, its true. But thats iffy territory to be navigating anyway: Aurastacking auradins are a pain too- drop barbs are a pain too- flamebellow barbs aren't going to lose to you :*(. Its all glitch territory and its really iffy on who considers it GM in the first place.

But even so, I've found that against legit farcast, you need to keep them at a screens length and drop fissures from corners, and play ultra defensively, unless you're using tgods + stack. Thats the blasted thing about CS zons. I've been dueling them with my shaman since before people found out about farcasting, and without it, they simply don't ever win. But with it, yeah they can be tough like you said. But its hard to feel sympathy for them and not defwhore or sorb them, when they're being about as legit as a drop barb or aurastacker. SO I wrote that passage referring to the non-farcast variant.

Yeah I wouldn't use volcano against good zons that WSG walk anyway. I honestly feel that all you need in that duel is just fissure and more fissure (its a good opportunity for oak sage). Never go on their screen, use screen corners, etc. Its very difficult to beat farcasting javazons without absorb.




oh yeah and my easy/medium/hard system worked like this:

Easy = I win more duels than I lose
Medium = We go about even
Hard = I lose more duels than I win

Non-farcast javazons are at such a huge disadvantage that they go under 'easy', even if the duel isn't easy to win, since I'll still win many more than I lose. Wind druids are an incredibly hard duel for newcomers, but I've gone just about even with them once I got good at it, and orb sorcs, even though the duel is extraordinarily difficult/annoying/tiresome, go under easy because in the long run I'll end up winning, even if it takes 10 minutes a duel. So don't mistake what I meant by easy/medium/hard, I just mean in terms of win ratios, not in terms of how taxing the duel will be.

This post was edited by deathwinger on Aug 11 2009 12:06pm

certainly not a new build but it looks like you put a lot into this

fyi in the dueling section

against bowazons

i would add using firestorm (undodgeable + completely rapes them)

maybe tele on them after a cano fhr lock and firestorm for ez pk

or just tele firestorm if you get a good namelock

ur butthurt. I advise watching this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIpIAX78gig

This post was edited by deathwinger on Aug 11 2009 11:58am

Aye firestorm is ok against them, because it is undodgeable, but its not a good tactic. Any decent bowazon will do one of two things when you telestomp:
1) Move
2) Strafe

If they move, you'll miss. If they strafe, you'll die.
Your grizzly will land hits against the moving targets and this does the killing. The fissure/volcano suppression is usually enough for most of them. Grizzly hounding does it too.
The problem with shaman vs bowazon is that almost every attack you have kills them in 1 hit a lot of the time. Its like being a little kid at a candy store, everything you do winds up killing them, so theres no real need to keep switching tactics and stuff. Hound runners with your bear, smash tankers with volcano, make the ground hot for spammers.