Quote (hue_two @ Tue, Jul 7 2009, 06:14pm)

I like 2ama/30frw/30str/60life/20res/2soc helms but no mention of them?

Quote (Chased @ Tue, Jul 7 2009, 06:11pm)

Bugged items on any gm char (europe's bugged belt)=trash. Make a zon on east and Ill be glad to give you lessons @ ZvZ...

Quote (manduki @ Tue, Jul 7 2009, 06:18pm)

Well it was because shako is usually almost impossible to beat and the extra sockets is only needed on a diamond bow build.

But if you can find one, then ber/jewel it



Ah.. was wondering why he supported fort.

Quote (hue_two @ Tue, Jul 7 2009, 06:19pm)

Yes for diamond bow/shadow but you need to add 2x40/15

Quote (manduki @ Tue, Jul 7 2009, 06:22pm)

Yup, pretty sure I have this build as one of the zvz builds.

Quote (hue_two @ Tue, Jul 7 2009, 06:25pm)

Oh yes I see something similar: "2 zon, dex, str, life, 2 soc" but u have put dex instead of frw.

Quote (manduki @ Tue, Jul 7 2009, 05:59pm)

This is actually one of the most common topics I get PM'd about.

Lets discuss this here then.

I suppose you support the use of fort.

So the only difference in builds are:

Fort, helm, belt.

Fort gives: 300%ed, 135 life, 30 resists = 18 man damage
120-45 gives: 120% ed, 45% ias, 30 frw = 120 life
Belt: 15 str = 45 life, 10 ias,
Total: 420%ed, 55 ias, 300 life, 18 max damage

vs

16060: 160%ed, 60% ias, 100 life
shako: 2 skills, 135 life, 135 mana, 1 open socket
belt: 120 life, 15 dr, 10 fhr , 13 life replen
Total: 160%ed, 60% ias, 355 life, 2 skills, 135 mana, 25 dr, 10 fhr, 13 life replen, 1 open socket

Cancelling out the bonuses of each other,

320%ed, 18 max damage vs. 55 life, 2 skills, 135 mana, 25 dr, 10 fhr, 13 life replen, 1 open socket

25% dr = 250 life assuming your opponent does 6k physical damage.

open socket could be 90 life (from jah), or 40%ed, 27 life (from 40-9 dex jewel), or stick a 40-15 ias in it and free up your ammy or gloves.

2 skills means extra 1% to all your passives, 10%ed to guided, 2 more arrows on multi

So thats the comparison on paper

On the char screen, fort build adds around 1000 more damage. 1000 damage / 6 / 2 = 83 damage.

83 damage vs 55 life, 2 skills, 135 mana, 25 dr, 10 fhr, 13 life replen, 1 open socket

You can take your pick.

Quote (Dadster @ Mon, Jun 29 2009, 08:22am)

I like the detail here its a good comprehensive overview of the modern build.

My only preference is for bb/forty if euscnl (Im assuming bb is not available on your realm) - as I prefer to get 5.9k ga 2k+ life, if you duel hammers a lot then 2k+ life makes a big difference as you are not 1 hit killed by them.
If bb was not available then I would still aim for 2k+ life simply to survive one hammer at the expense of slightly lower damage makes life much easier.

Also faith shadow bows > diamond imo for the max damage potential which as you pointed out give the zon a nice change in options from the standard gmb setup.
Shadow also gives the option for a 45% ow setup with bow dracs/ow belt/gores - might be BM but depends on where/who you are dueling!

But really nice guide overall - I do think the 2k+ life is quite an important goal for a modern bowie?

Quote (UltraRobot @ Tue, Jul 7 2009, 07:22pm)

Very nice guide, def the best ive seen by far for a gmb based zon.

With that being said i think it is a little biased towards gmb, the diamond bow section is kinda lacking, it can be very effective when used with a vita/dex split build and a 2 zon/30 frw/dex/life/2 socket circlet + fort that allows for more life more dr more resists and more min dmg. 

I think in an updated version you should list some more complete setups like you did with the gmb (you listed 2, one with dr and one more glass) i liked those but would like to seelayouts like that involving other bows.  (matri builds can be interesting too, but mostly in bm bub setups rocking like 35% slow ect )

9/10 overall on the guide though, the best bowa guide ive seen posted.  Should be stickied asap if it hasn't already!



Imo, diamond bows are vastly superior to shadow bows.  Shadow bow does .5 (yes . ) more average dmg then diamond bow, and the consistency you get from using a diamond bow is >>>> then .5 dmg

Quote (manduki @ Tue, Jul 7 2009, 12:43pm)

Thank you, the next version of this guide will have:

Vita Build (since I keep getting PM's about those)
Poorman's Budget bowa (since I get quite a few about those too)
and maybe I'll include a separate diamond faith build, though I admit I never really spent too much effort in making one.

I had a diamond bow setup but I didn't have a "godly" circlet and it was only 8% sup. Maybe it was due to this that I didn't like it.

I was a pretty big fan of matri faith when faith first came out. Loved the versatility of only having to obtain 45 ias. But then to my cruel realization, someone did all the calculations to prove gmb/16060 required exactly the same stats but was tonnes better. (may have been kel, celeste or frank. Possibly dust)