Actually Lightning Fury does indeed ignore target defense, you must not know much about amazons using Lightning Fury?
Lightning Bolt (which is used to deliver Open Wounds) also ignores blocking, it hits as a spell





Agreed, I don't think he even read the guide ^^

Another important PM responded to, posting it so I never have to write it out again:





They think that 451s somehow helps to stop life regen and help damage through EShield and that's silly

A 451 deals only about 112 damage after 75% poison
Then after pvp penalty (which reduces all damage to .17 of original value) it's more like 19 actual damage over 12 seconds
That means that the 451 is actually only dealing about 1.55 damage per second (that isn't doing a damn thing to help you, tbh)

Replacing the the 451 with a 3/xx/20 life would amplify your solid max damage by about 60
After critical hit rate around 72% that's actually a good 120 damage
Even after 50% DR that is still 60 raw damage
Even after pvp penalty it is still 10 raw damage
And the big factor that people don't recognize is that a 7fpa bow fire can hit like 3x in a single second
let's consider you are aiming at a max blocker, let's say you are hitting once with GA, per second
That is still 10 damage per second from a single 3max and over 12 seconds of fire that is 120 damage vs the 451's 19 damage over 12 seconds

Poison doesn't stop life regeneration, damaging someone in general stops life regeneration, stick wth 3maxers

On top of all this, it gives you more AR and +life




Any situation that people think a 451 helps with is just bested by the use of Swordback's 50% Open Wounds
It also goes under Eshield, it cannot be res stacked against and in fact you can't halt or prevent it's damage at all

This post was edited by TSBoyer on Nov 10 2012 03:47pm

In all fairness a lot of characters don't have 75 poison res, or even close to it sometimes. You also forgot the hell plr penalty, which (unless they are using plr stack) will double your poison time and therefore the damage dealt.

Furthermore it always hits. What I mean by that is, poison is always applied when you hit as opposed to swordback's 50% ow proc. If you're on bow side you might only get one shot, and you might not even have time to swap to shield to hope for an ow proc before the arrow hits or your opponent escapes.

Sure if they have 75 res it's not too useful, but then again the extra damage of a 3/20/20 is not huge either, and again, most fpk chars don't max out poison res, nor do most bnet sorcs.

You can always use a 175/20 if you wish (I find the added length of the 451 to be useful though).

Also you need a poison sc to reliably kill mdr/pdr sorcs. If they are poisoned and at one life, just pop them with a poison jav/plague jav to kill them. Nothing else will do it, and hitting with poisoned multi shot then one jav is way easier than hitting with 2 javs. These builds are bm so it's kind of a moot point, but interesting to think about ^^

Your forgetting to half for average damage, as the damage on the sc is max damage.

Also if a +3max damage translates to 60 max damage, this means you have 1900 off weapon ed, you get like 288 from faith 300 from fort 120 at best from circ and maybe like 250 from dex? Thats like ~ 958 ed which is quite a bit off from your figure, I could've missed something out but I dont think I missed out anything too significant...

This post was edited by Jeebus666 on Nov 10 2012 04:55pm

Remember this guide was written for ladders/wagers/tournamens ~ vs. other well built expensive characters
The only character that won't have 75% poison res is an EShield sorc (maybe)
Most are wise enough to stash vs poison setups like andariel's vs silly shit like plague javelin

Swordback is on average 1 to 2 hits procs OW and OW hits far far far harder than a 451, even with a bow and the damage cannot be stopped, nulled or nerfed in any way ~ it just works
7fpa fires 3 arrows per second and even if you're moving/ducking/running you fire at least 1-2 GA a second while moving, especially vs EShield sorc
OW definately deals more damage to an EShield sorc ~ It's noticable visual life degeneration, where as a 451 is not a all
Makes my point entirely





When I pick up a max SC and lay it back down on the zon it adds aroun +50 to +60 max damage depending on your DEX allocation
What you bring up is a good point and I don't understand exactly what is going on with how it adds it the way it does unless it is somehow counting the charms toward the bows actual weapon damage
War Travs have the same effect on zon, that 15-25 damage somehow adds like 250- 450 damage, no idea why but it does

And you're right I did forget to half the max but I also did not mention dueling the majority of characters who ARE NOT max block and who do not use 50% DR
So a character who has 50% DR and max block will get hit roughly once during a 7fpa onslaught per second and take 5 actual damage per second from the 3max, which is still 60 damage over 12 seconds, nearly triple the 451
Then a character who has 0% DR and isn't using max block, gets pounded hard by 7fpa and 3 max, that's 10 x 3 = 30 per second, which is 300 actual damage over 12 seconds, that beats the shit out of a 451 any day of the week
What I first listed was the worst possible case scenario, vs a 50% DR, 75% block barbarian



So a 451 may be useful if someone doesn't have max poison res but how often does that really happen vs. opponents on GM Ladders or well built characters in general?
Let's not forgot Andarie'ls Visage, an easily found common unique that just says no to poison, even plague javelin *this is the stashed item that kills plague builds for serious GM competition* and why I decided upon use of Fury strictly, ditching plague all together
and you miss out on 20 raw life, these things do stack up in the end

Point being, 3 max damage is just always reliable and when someone doesn't have max block and doesn't have DR, it's just plain potent

Most fpk characters do not have max poison res (also for example most w/s trappers will not have max poison res, unless they item lame).

I'm not discounting the use of ow or anything, I'm just comparing the utility of one 451 to one 3-20-20. The poison can also kill lower hp minions etc, do minor damage through bone armor, etc.

The only character that won't have 75% poison res is an EShield sorc (maybe)

pls learn this rule myrrdrall9

I dnt have max psn res

You would in a hurry if I restarted to Plague Javelin

Har Har