I started to use a 08 gaze on my zon with phoenix on switch... simply switch in Kiras vs elemental dmg.

EDIT: with 160/60 ofc.

This post was edited by heyguys1234 on Jan 27 2009 08:18pm

Even so, this isn't a pvm build, its clearly pvp, so why would anyone recommend advice to make it better for pvm...

You have a point. Maybe some people are just a little too helpful.

Shako has less dr, no res and no fhr. Also the only way to achieve 7fpa with shako and NOT using 16060 is using a 40/15 + mat faith... then ur dmg would be god awful. If u decided to use 16060 with shako, u could use gmb faith for a bit more damage, but it still wouldnt be too much different than a diamond faith + fort and 8030 coa on my zon, if not worse. On top of that u lose dr, u lose up to 60 res, u lose 30 fhr... is that really worth the extra +200 life or so?

forgot that with a 160/60 you loose 140% ed as well

worst zon build ever

Interesting idea for a Bow Amazon; it's floating towards a new idea for zon builds, so kudos for that. But having more life, dr, and resists doesn't mean you are going to live
more than any other amazon out there, just means you are a bigger punching bag. So what do you do instead than other than having life and dr and resists? Of course I'm not
saying you throw those out of the windows, but look towards a more efficient way to live.

You mentioned using an SS quickswitch, which is a great shield/alternate set. Lets you have massive DR, resists, and blocking, but coupled with 152 dex as your build states, well
you just basically butchered the potential. You can easily make up the bit of life, if you simple just block the attack. An example would be my joke dagger-zon (it works kinda well,
more for laughs and giggles), she has base strength, but 30x Dex, with 34x Vitality. With a few items, you can easily break past 2000 hp with bo and have max block. If you are
being rather cheap, then use a whistan's, you'll lose the dr and resists but require less dex (i would go with the SS still). Max block, solid resists, and fast run walk speed, allows you
to proxy people to name lock GA as well as run away from danger.

If anything, if you want to get technical, having 75% block would means you multiply by 1.75 right? to whatever number, therefore 3500, not counting the dr and resists. If you want
to factor in DR, then you have 50% dr with SS and verdungoes out, so multiply that by 2, and you just toppled whatever you have stated. To blow this out of proportion, you don't need
many points into dodge/evade/avoid, you can get 50+% with the one point wonder, so factor in another x2, and technically if you block/dodge/count dr, you should have lets see....
.... (not gonna do it, but you get my point lol)

So this brings up another point, 174 strength, for COA is what you said you used. That means you need 174 - 20 (anni) - 20 (torch) - 20 (base) = 114 Strength from gear (since
i doubt you have an intention of using +strength charms). Using fort, verdungoes, and kb/ias/whatever else gloves, and rings, that's an arguable compromise of stat points for
gain. So what's really being gained from using COA then?
1) +1 skill? You have to be kidding me, if you want bow skill or passive skill on bowazons then you should just give up on D2
2) 30 FHR Hit recovery? With verdungoes (assuming) and boots that's 20%/9frames, with COA, that's well geee that's 50, you are 2 short unless you really want to socket
a shael (which is a bad idea, waste a socket and str points)

Here's the table for you guys:
Frames FHR
11 6
10 13
9 20
8 32
7 52
5 86
4 146 (but lets be real here)

3) 15% DR, DR is always good, can't argue about it.
4) Resists, let's face it, high damage elemental will rock you, even at 75/75 unless you're stacking and raising the max res cap, which will compromise the stats you want and sorbing
will compromise it further.
5) 300+ defense (probably alot more than 300 like 350+), you will get hit by most things anyways.

So then, is COA a good helm for a zon? I think not, you can agree or not, some like it some don't. To each their own, but above is what it is. So if not COA then what helm should you use?
Well I'm going to go with the FRW theme with block for your main defense, so a 120ed/45ias/30frw helm would be great. Hell a 2ama/30frw/80ed/30ias MIGHT (im pushing this one lol)
be a better substitute.

*keep in mind, any FRW for a zon over 150%, will desync, meaning you'll somewhat be like those desync chargers, just not that obnoxious (maybe )

So then, on to charms. Since you want over 150% FRW, it's not that hard to get. 30% from boots + 37x3 from charms that gives you 141, with cats eye you can easily do it. Or if you want
just get the over 100% with charms or if you're quickswitching with titans, just have at least 70% Therefore, you can have additional 3/20/20s for the life theme, or if you want resists and life
get some 5/20's.

But the bottom line for Amazons survival, with bow, is to have good technique, when to run, when to shoot, etc. Too bad I'm not that experienced with techniques so maybe some expert
zon player may bring some insight for that. It takes a lot of skill to play a good bow zon.

This post was edited by phlaggarium on Jan 29 2009 09:03pm

As a follow up, the way you put your skills is awfully inefficient. Most zons with mediocre gear, can get 50+ dodge evade avoid, with 1 point, and since it increases in a
diminished factor, it's really stupid to max them. You can instead:

1) get decoy, works once a while, excellent skill regardless
2) get more into penetrate for attack rating, when you spam multi-shot, or use strafe when they're stupid to go straight at you.
3) use it anywhere else, but dodge evade evoid
4) maybe even add a bit into jav skills as an alternative attack (this one came out of my @$$, not sure if its a good idea but its out there for you)

Keep in mind though, it's constructive criticism, not here to flame your build. If you want to discuss that be great

This post was edited by phlaggarium on Jan 29 2009 09:01pm

Ah one tiny thing I forgot to mention. For zon's she has two different sets of block rates.

With 1 handed swing weapons, aka non-daggers and javs, well your block rate blows (not gonna list it cause they're double digit frames)
With a stabbing weapon, like dagger and javs, its this:
Frames FBR
5 0
4 13
3 32
2 86 (not really practical)
1 600 (i sincerely, doubt you can do this, but if you do, well you just owned diablo 2)
Therefore having storm shield gives you a 3 frame block, since it gives you 35% FBR, pretty good, only thing better would be a paladin.
So if you run with SS and persay titans.

You'll end up, with 150% FRW for desync, 75% block, 50%+ dodge/evade/avoid, as well as 50% dr if you do get hit for damage (not elemental)

Anyways just saying, you CAN get 86% FBR.
Guardian angels (30%) + Whistan's Guard (40%) + Shael (20%)
Which makes me want to try it out of sh*ts n giggles too lol... Meaning you have a paladin with a 1 frame block LOL with holy shield.

This post was edited by phlaggarium on Jan 29 2009 09:28pm

Decoy is an excellent skill and I don't understand why so many bowa builds on here don't even have 1 point in it.

I'm using a hybrid so I have to play very differently to how you would play a Vitazon but I find decoy essential in some matchups like BvA. you probably already know that versus BvA a Hybrid bowa basically turns into a 1 pt Javazon because if you get whirled with your bow out you pretty much just die. 90% of the time you will have titans/ss out so you can keep on pressuring the Barb with 4k+ LFs whilst also having huge DR and max block.

So when I see the barb in minimap range, I switch to walk and Titans/SS, try to grab a namelock and chuck LFs, breaking the lock to move in short, erratic steps when the whirl fails. You will desynch to varying degrees when doing this and you will be able to tell because the Barb will start long whirling from way too far away. Anyway, before breaking the lock and walking, I cast a decoy just below my character so that the decoy partially or completely obstructs my character.

When the Barb leaps in visual range, set a decoy in the same way. They will only ever leap when they are trying to prime a namelock or trying to make you think they are about to teleport on top of you. I duelled a Barb recently that would fake this out from time to time so I was never really sure if he was really going to do it or not but I found it was always safest to just assume you are going to get stomped regardless. If they do try to lock you there will be a good chance they will lock the decoy and miss you (provided you set the decoy in the right place and took the initiative to walk when you anticipate the teleport).

Alot of it has to do with timing and anticipating the Barb's movement. It obviously doesn't work if you just stand still so you and your decoy get whirled in the same place.

Likewise, if you walk too soon, then the Barb will just lock the Zon which is chucking spears because decoys don't attack with you Man if decoys attacked moved just as you do (a bit like Baal's decoy) they would be gamebreakingly awesome.

Its very hit and miss against a really good BvA who will be moving very erratically and should be very difficult to read but you don't have much to lose as long as you don't fumble it. I tend to find that if the Barb is even in visual range and I'm not dead yet it means 1 of 2 things:

1) failed whirl (missed because of desynch or locked the decoy)
2) I'm about to die but just don't know it yet.

I was toying with lots of different strats in a fairly big series against a competant BvA for the past few days. I think the final score on wednesday was 22 or so wins for the Barb and 3 wins for me (all kills made with titans). Best of 5s would usually go 4-1 with a few embarassing 5-0s. Against BvA though a bowa has no initiative so I don't think theres any shame in losing badly to a good BvA. The Barb controls when you can be offensive, when you have to be defensive, when you have to move even. You don't ever go hunting for them. They come for you (unless they suck horribly).

Actually thats one thing I don't get about Vitazons. How you are supposed to even stand up to a half decent BvA without Titans/SS on switch. I guess I have to see it myself but I can't visualise it.

This post was edited by Addiktive on Jan 30 2009 06:47am