d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Diablo II > Diablo 2 Discussion > Strategy & Guides > Best Pvp Barb Skill
Prev15678Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Views: 1916Replies: 72Track Topic
Member
Posts: 34,936
Joined: Jan 21 2012
Gold: 1,090.50
#61
Sep 30 2018 02:05am
Quote (Goomshill @ Sep 30 2018 07:19am)
What can you do with a zerk barb that you can't do with a BvC using 1 point zerk?
the damage is high enough that if you're going to be able to zerk them at all, 1 point zerk with grief/beast is going to kill them in a few hits anyway, and they will fhr/block lock them.
and since you're a tanky char, needing to OHKO people isn't exactly a priority. If you are dueling an ES sorc and land a leap/tele/warcry/zerk combo and they need to wsg out, does it really matter if you're hitting with a bajillion damage 2 hander or just a grief/beast?

besides that, grief/beast and bvc gear is probably already the best-in-slot for practical zerk anyway, although storm for a BvA setup might be better in some matchups but normally physical damage builds are the same ones that are functionally immune to zerk like smiters, bowazons, barbs, etc. Grief/beast is definitely the best combination of damage/ar/speed. A big 2 handed dumb build like a death glorious axe would be happy to swing at 14 FPA, absurdly bad and useless in pvp. But even something like a 2 handed BotD that hits 11-12 fpa is still slow as molasses for a char that already suffers from being a difficult to connect melee attack. Grief/beast does it at 9 fpa and probably has higher damage than any 2 hander that could hit 10-11 fpa, between grief's high damage, DS and the fanat, and then that extra AR and stats.

Widowmaker is certainly fine. Its more useful than people think in plenty of matchups. I've ran into some barbs on my geddon druid that just bossed me around because they had widow in stash, which is a nightmare. But the other side of that is- any BvC can throw on widowmaker. A zerk barb doesn't have any different gear or skill build to optimize it, so its still a question of why pure zerk and not just bvc with stashed widow?



I've gotten the drop on a few druids with zerk when there is a lot of recasting delay and war cry spam while syncing around or baiting them in or just risking an aggressive jump off an unsummon lock. Even competent ones, zerk is a useful tool in a barbs repertoire. It isn't a top priority, and you should be getting more utility out of the already-gimmick war cry in that matchup than attempting zerk, and most times a warcry lands you'd sooner be whirlwinding away anyway. Its like using charged strike on a damach zon vs druid, you can do it, it can catch people by surprise and kill them, but its definitely not your first second or third form of attack and extremely risky. But it sure is fun to telestomp a druid who goes to recast and slap him before he can react.

As far as dins- no. Don't think I've zerked an hdin in a very long time. Even if they're literally immobile and letting you carefully teleport their blind spot, all it would take a fidget to chain you into hammers you can't run south from. And god knows you don't want to step south and zerk from the blind spot because the most likely outcome of that is they just telestomp a second time while you're in the animation, whereas why wouldn't you just whirlwind away if they're telestomping like that.
Zerk does kind of have a use against mages, if they get dumb enough to telegraph their switch between hdin and foher and stick on conviction pumping their arms in the air like a retard, but that would run afoul of "competent hdin"


Oh don't get me wrong, I've zerked my fair share of dudus even the good ones but if it comes down to try hard duels then the druid can abuse any barb purely tryin to zerk. Have to throw in quick leaps or a really clean wc to land and even then I'd still say ww > zerk vs dudus

Hdin is a no go for zerks, he could just do 1 smite/foh for stun and rip barb. Ww is much better and makes it harder for hammers to hit obv
Member
Posts: 22,702
Joined: Sep 3 2006
Gold: 40,582.00
#62
Sep 30 2018 04:15am
Quote (Piwah @ Sep 30 2018 08:05am)
Oh don't get me wrong, I've zerked my fair share of dudus even the good ones but if it comes down to try hard duels then the druid can abuse any barb purely tryin to zerk. Have to throw in quick leaps or a really clean wc to land and even then I'd still say ww > zerk vs dudus

Hdin is a no go for zerks, he could just do 1 smite/foh for stun and rip barb. Ww is much better and makes it harder for hammers to hit obv


There is much true in this, but i have zerked a fair share of hdins, and tried different zerk only builds for the fun of it.
BA got better range than hoto, u walk a little before u zerk, such that u desync and wont display urself in his range for a moment.
Pure zerk babas can use up to +4 range adder 2 hander, that can be a little help vs hammers that smite and vs dudus that walk abuse since he know ur pure zerk xD

A bvc will always have better chance landing zerks as people have to play in a way to avoid your wirls and u can slam some zerk inbetween when it fits best, and then when they try to abuse ur zerk u just wirl.

But i thought topic owner was refering to pvm.
Member
Posts: 1,611
Joined: Oct 6 2016
Gold: 0.00
#63
Sep 30 2018 12:06pm
I should have added that my zerker uses 1pt ww, because it's too useful to go without it. I use it more than a ww barb would use zerk, and some will think "why not max ww then?" but since tri-whirls are now a thing of the past, I prefer the massive damage that maxed zerk brings to the table. It's more challenging to land but also more rewarding, and I find that the threat of hitting so hard can scare some casters into playing defensively, which can work in your favour when using widowmaker.

Grief ba/beast combo CAN work well on a zerker i'm sure, but if you drop the beast (like when needing block/Dr), you will need to make up a lot of ias from elsewhere. I prefer a grief PB and use storm/spirit/wiz (ummed for ow) on the other slot.

I also use a 15/15 ias/max in arreat's and a shael in widowmaker to get a good 10fpa attack on bow switch which i find is more useful than the open wounds from 'um' in widow that most use.

Although I'm full zerk, I play as more of a hybrid; leap/zerk/ww/guided being the main four skills. Versus hammerdins I have definitely found more success with zerk than with ww in the past; it has more damage and attack rating. The key is to zerk once or twice and then ww away before he re-positions for a second stomp.

This post was edited by Strategist on Sep 30 2018 12:11pm
Member
Posts: 1,611
Joined: Oct 6 2016
Gold: 0.00
#64
Sep 30 2018 01:04pm
Quote (Piwah @ Sep 30 2018 07:58am)
What match ups would you use Widow for?


I find a bow so useful on a barbarian that it's probably easier to name the matches that I don't use it for! I'm not keen on using it versus blizz sorcs for the reason being that if they land a hit whilst I'm on the bow side, it will hurt, badly. I prefer the extra life from a hoto/cta switch and use grief PB + ummed wiz on main side.

Smiters are a bad duel either way, but I stand more of a chance if I don't use the bow. They will land a charge easier when I'm on that bow side (no block) and the extra life from hoto/cta means it will take another smite to kill me.

Bowazons that have a lot of desync can be a really tough duel whether you're ww or zerk or a mix between the two; you just can't hit them very easily. If I use the bow, however, I can sometimes entice them to stand still and start shooting, and then I can pounce.

Lightning javazons on the first duel usually meet me head on and are easily dodge-locked and killed. If they then play more defensively, it is wise for me to use the bow; then, I have them beaten from both short and long distance.

Having a bow switch is useful against defensive players in general. If a necro is scared of your zerk and plays defensively, you can trouble him greatly with a bow. His spirits travel slower than arrows, and his spears have less range. Fireballs and firebolts have less range, don't track, and are easy to avoid if the sorc stays outside of your screen, but you can still reach her with guided. Lightning sorc, same thing; well, unless she's using infinity, in which case I would prefer a hoto/cta on switch and use grief/wiz as main, as mentioned previously.
Member
Posts: 1,611
Joined: Oct 6 2016
Gold: 0.00
#65
Sep 30 2018 01:22pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Sep 30 2018 08:19am)
What can you do with a zerk barb that you can't do with a BvC using 1 point zerk?


The damage difference between 1pt zerk and 10+ pts shout is MUCH less than a maxed and synergised zerk. I don't know by how much exactly without calculating it, but I would presume that the difference would be 400-500% dmg, not to mention the AR. My barb's +% to dmg is 980 to 1000. I get at least +50 dmg from charms, use a 394 grief, 59/17 steelrends and use a 15/15 ias/max in arreat's. I don't know how to calculate it (character screen lies...) but at a guess I must hit 10-12k damage. 70% DS and 32% crit equates to around an 80-85% chance to do double damage - 20-24k of magic damage, or more, I don't know.

That said, the zerk barb is psychologically a different prospect than a ww barb - at least ones that can't tri-whirl because of the new lag thing - because in one hit you can end a duel completely, or leave them with such little life that you can pick them off with a bow or slash them with 1pt ww.

This post was edited by Strategist on Sep 30 2018 01:28pm
Member
Posts: 29,274
Joined: Nov 1 2007
Gold: 474.97
Warn: 80%
#66
Sep 30 2018 02:11pm
Quote (kai_jph @ 29 Sep 2018 08:25)
True there, but he dug that hole himself.


-You- dig holes and fall in. I'm the one staying up.
Member
Posts: 27,232
Joined: Nov 18 2013
Gold: 10,575.00
#67
Sep 30 2018 05:37pm
Quote (Taurean @ Sep 30 2018 01:11pm)
-You- dig holes and fall in. I'm the one staying up.


Wrong KID
Member
Posts: 29,274
Joined: Nov 1 2007
Gold: 474.97
Warn: 80%
#68
Sep 30 2018 06:18pm
Quote (Vilify @ 1 Oct 2018 01:37)
Wrong KID


Aquarians.. you have your moments, but you just lack the practical solidity. There are holes in your theories. Just remember to always implement ethics and common sense in the calculation.
Member
Posts: 5,867
Joined: Jan 14 2006
Gold: 48.55
#69
Sep 30 2018 06:35pm
Quote (Worrywart @ Sep 28 2018 02:05am)
leap+ww so good pvp chars can win team duels

ww too buggy this patch to be worth making
berserk barbs take advantage of bad pub players, not a real build
conc barbs are viable vs melee chars that spent less money on d2 than you
throwbarb doesn't beat anyone except shitty euro players

I hate saying it but it looks like melee conc barb is the closest thing to a viable pvp barb this patch



Was not playing pvp the last 6 month. What you mean with ww is buggy now? Just for barb or also for ww on assa?
Member
Posts: 9,595
Joined: Nov 24 2015
Gold: Locked
#70
Sep 30 2018 06:41pm
Quote (Eisenbieger @ Sep 30 2018 07:35pm)
Was not playing pvp the last 6 month. What you mean with ww is buggy now? Just for barb or also for ww on assa?


It's not just ww, most melee attacks. Some hits don't register properly
Go Back To Strategy & Guides Topic List
Prev15678Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll

© 2003-2026 d2jsp  Contact