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Poll > Best Guides For Mainstream Pvp Builds > Are These The Best Guides?
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Mar 21 2012 06:47pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Mar 22 2012 12:45am)
Yes, I did.

However, his Grief numbers are wrong.

I ask again, if the +400 damage is applied after ED%, why isn't Grief one of the worst weapons in the game? The damage outcomes, after pvp penalty, would never reach over 200. This is solid proof.


according to the tests, the damage numbers reach over 400.

And even if it was 200, 200 damage applied by such a fast hitting attack is alot, the reason you dont know this is probably due to your lack of dueling experience with the Balanced BvC
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Mar 21 2012 06:50pm
Quote (Chimpo @ Mar 21 2012 08:47pm)
according to the tests, the damage numbers reach over 400.

And even if it was 200, 200 damage applied by such a fast hitting attack is alot, the reason you dont know this is probably due to your lack of dueling experience with the Balanced BvC


Exactly, this proves tudey is wrong about the way +damage is applied.

200 damage by a fast hitting attack is nothing compared to the almost 500 avg by edc....

And the average would be a LOT closer to 100 with a Grief if +dmg were applied like tudey claims.

This post was edited by Voyaging on Mar 21 2012 06:50pm
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Mar 21 2012 06:54pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Mar 22 2012 12:50am)
Exactly, this proves tudey is wrong about the way +damage is applied.

200 damage by a fast hitting attack is nothing compared to the almost 500 avg by edc....

And the average would be a LOT closer to 100 with a Grief if +dmg were applied like tudey claims.


It doesn't, It just shows that Deadly strike is applied after the pvp panalty along with the 400 damage ( maybe deadly strike has a unique property that it is applied after the final damage modifier - in this case +400 damage )

The deadly strike then cancels out with the 50% DR to give the 400 damages we're seeing.

I'm not 100% sure on this though, been a while since I played, obviously tudey will be able to give you a better response.
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Mar 21 2012 06:54pm
any pure foh guide ?

maybe i make one soon =)
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Mar 21 2012 06:58pm
hai gaiz i herd u like balance bvc so i got some new balance for ya

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Mar 21 2012 07:03pm
Quote (iloveoov @ Mar 21 2012 08:58pm)
hai gaiz i herd u like balance bvc so i got some new balance for ya

http://www.newbalances993.org/images/New-Balance-072.jpg


I'll bet those yellow rare shoes have fucking sweet stats

This post was edited by Habakkuk22 on Mar 21 2012 07:03pm
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Mar 21 2012 07:16pm
is making diablo 2 characters hard? lold
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Mar 21 2012 07:29pm
Quote (uzz @ Mar 21 2012 09:16pm)
is making diablo 2 characters hard? lold


It's retaining the information that is difficult
I'm sure that all these tests were ran multiple thousands of times over the course of 10+ years of Diablo 2
But keeping a good informative thread bumped is difficult
And remembering where to refer people for this type of information in general, is even more difficult



I am actually Grushing a Barbarian right now so that I can run this test myself
My buddy wanted a Barb anyhow
Expect accurate results within the next few days ^^
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Mar 22 2012 09:09am
Quote (iloveoov @ 22 Mar 2012 01:58)
hai gaiz i herd u like balance bvc so i got some new balance for ya

http://www.newbalances993.org/images/New-Balance-072.jpg


I award these shoes 10/10 for balance.

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Mar 22 2012 12:12pm
Quote (Voyaging @ 22 Mar 2012 03:02)
This is COMPLETELY incorrect, Grief is affected by all off-weapon ED% modifiers, this has been shown time and time again to be a result of the Lying Character Screen.


Again, where exactly has that been shown time and time again? I asked you for that a while ago already and I'm still waiting.
Quote (Voyaging @ 22 Mar 2012 03:33)
I get it, but he's wrong. It is EXACTLY the same thing as +400 minimum and +400 maximum damage.

f(x)=x^2/x is not at all the same as g(x)=x

Grief has a few quirks, such as adding to shield damage and not working with Vengeance, but it otherwise works.


where's your proof for that?
so grief exactly the same as +400 minimum and +400 maximum but it adds to shield damage while +max/min doesn't and it doesn't add to vengeance while +max/min does? That means it is not exactly the same.
I did not claim that f(x) is the same as g(x). However f(x)=x^2/x=x would be the same as g(x)=x in everywhere else but at 0, where f(x) has no value. The point was to illustrate that while the two functions look the same they aren't exactly the same. +damage looks like +max/+min but it's not. That is why it works differently.

Quote (Voyaging @ 22 Mar 2012 03:45)
Yes, I did.

However, his Grief numbers are wrong.

I ask again, if the +400 damage is applied after ED%, why isn't Grief one of the worst weapons in the game? The damage outcomes, after pvp penalty, would never reach over 200. This is solid proof.


Quote (tudey)
Since “Grief” has additive damage that is calculated after PvP penalties, it is unaffected by both Axe Mastery and Whirlwind Damage multipliers.

you quoted this part of a post in one of your earlier posts but you seemed to not really read it too well so I bolded the answer to your question there.
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