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Sep 28 2021 01:13am
Another great topic mate :thumbsup:
I got my hands full now with d2r but i will do some tests for sure. :thumbsup:

Quote (Oilerfan @ 27 Sep 2021 20:12)
I'd wager he's getting most of his gear from D2GA or such which are pretty limited, which is why in an earlier post I offered to Hero Edit anything he needs. Most intriguing thread(s) I've seen in over 10 years, so I don't mind.


Will you pm how to make the god? I have it online but not offline :P
You should try the Dex Glitch Werewolf Barb
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Sep 28 2021 01:55am
Quote (Ironboar @ Sep 28 2021 09:12am)
^gel87

Oh I almost forgot that skill haha :lol: , haven't play any throw barb yet
what u assume is absolutely nice if the boxer glitch can also join in,
but there's no +str or +dex mod on those unique throwing wps right? I know they can't get socketed,
I think we may need +str or dex mod godly rares to try it, lmk if u can edit any...

I also came out an idea, and another question, need ur help cuz I'm newbie and dumb on pvp aspect:

1. do u think the teleport 7F berserk barb can be used in BvC duel? (it got grief, @res, fcr, faster fps etc)

2. my idea is 6F impaler zon.
Is Impale a practical thing in PvP or PvM?
even a Zon use BOTD matriarchal Pike & 150ias off wp ias, only can reach 20FPS, use Matriarchal Javelin 40ias and 180 off-wp ias can reach 12F,
and lvl 25 Impale has 900%ed
60ias Jmod + 60ias Jeweler's + 20ias Gloves + Highlord + 20ias from helm (andy or 30ias jewel'd) >= 180 = 6F native attack, which >> 14F,


Well:
20fcr/8% dr barb is very hard.
To slow to be effective vs necro and Sorcs.
To low dr for ama/smiter/druid/barbs

By using a coa you would have some dr% at least, the str and dex from gloves can easy be gained via torch annie.

Zerk is also hard if u only have zerk, its best mixed with wirl.

People like to have this on barb:
37 and 63fcr breakpoints
48fhr breakpoint
They May sacrifice dr% on 63fcr eq, but usually have some.

Barbs are mainly built around helms like theese:
Coa
2barb/20fcr/2soc/adds
20fcr/3soc
Valk 08

Trang ouls is very much used as gloves.


The impale zon seems fun. But you would have to calculate dps to know if its better than jab. Jab will also trigger more fbr and such.



Yes, they can spawn with a little dex or str, usually though its very nice to use lacerator for amplify dmg.

My throwbaba, would love to bug it even more with ur bug ^^
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=82170925&f=103


Another thing:
If by using this bug to achieve same attack speed, but with a higher dmg wep its already a win.

A shield zerker with eth rare self rep cruel war hammer hitting same speed as a grief pb is already a win.... Or a grief ba with same speed as grief pb is better.

This post was edited by gel87 on Sep 28 2021 02:02am
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Sep 28 2021 11:00am
Im sitting here thinking.
Fireclaw?
Maul?

Werebear got quite the decent ed%, how adds nice ed%, maul adds slowly ed, fireclaw adds epic ar% and fire dmg.

* I used to dream about a mauler/summoner wielding beast and shockwave + maul the fuck out of enemies meanwhile.
I was thinking -10wsm scepter, and i think it could reach 4,16 attacks pr sec, but only like 2k dmg.
- What if i could either attack faster, or many even slam a 8k dmg in their face with same speed?

* a fireclawer usually got like zero physical dmg. 110ias pb or 115ias war scyte or 110ias war scyte with 10ias offhand. They reach 4 frames attack. But on asgard i used eth 95ed giant tresher, who not only is a +4 range adder wepon, it also gave me 4k physical dmg to mix on a pure fcr/fire dmg setup...
- what if i could reach 4 frames with a eth botd giant tresher, mixed with jalals(20base str) if needed? We are then maby looking upon 8-10k physical dmg on top of fireclaw. I dno, maby eth tomb reaver can be used.

I dont fully understand the bug. But i see much potential.

Shaper got high bonuses on stuff like polearms/staffs when it comes to attack speed.

So a Druid is fast with polearms due to the reason it has 17 as wep speed on "staf" meanwhile on hth(hands) it got 16.

Quote (gel87 @ May 13 2021 07:33pm)
Starting to get somewhere.

1 handed swining wepon = 1hs aka 19

Wepon Base = 19
Werewolf lvl 33 = 75skill ias
Off wepon Ias = 10
WSM = WSM*-1 (i just write 30 instead of -30, and -10 instead of 10 in excel for now)

Delay:
Formula given by site: delay = [256*(WeaponBase + 1) / [(weapon ias+wsm+100)*256/100]]
Forumla in excel: =ROUNDDOWN(256*(WeaponBase+0)/((Weapon ias+wsm+100)*256/100);0) <---- I think WeaponBase is 18+1 so was listed as 19 since this is dudu. So i do 19+0 as that seems to fit better.
Formula with numbers: =ROUNDDOWN(256*(19+0)/((70+30+100)*256/100);0)
Answere: 11

Anim speed:
Formula given by site: Anim speed = [9 * 256 / delay]
Formula in excel: =ROUNDDOWN(9 * 256 /delay;0)
Formula with numbers: =ROUNDDOWN(9 * 256 /11;0)
Answere 209

Speed increase:
Formula given by site: Speed increase = [120 * item_ias / (120 + item ias)] + skill ias + wsm <-------(if (Speed increase > 75): Speed increase = 75)
Formula in excel: =ROUNDDOWN(IF(((120*item_ias/(120+item_ias))+skill_ias+wsm)>75;75;(120*item_ias/(120+item_ias))+skill_ias+wsm);0)
With numbers: =ROUNDDOWN(IF(((120*10/(120+10))+75+30)>75;75;(120*10/(120+10))+75+30);0)
Answere: 75

Frames:
Formula given by site: Frames = {256*7/[(100 + Speed increase)/100*Anim speed]}
Formula in excel: =ROUNDUP((256*7/((100+Speed_increase)/100*Anim_speed));0)
Formula in excel: =ROUNDUP((256*7/((100+75)/100*256));0)
Answere: 4

This seems to work for everything tested so far:
Ba hits 4 with 95ias, and drops to 5 with 90ias, and drops to 6 with 55ias.
Ettin axe does not reach 4frames with 95ias(needs 130 which is impossible), it hits 5 frames at 70ias, drops to 6 frames at 65ias.
Giant tresher hits 4 frames with 65ias, drops to 5 frames at 60ias. Which consent with d2ias calc. I need to use: staf 17 for this to be correct. Instead of 1hs 19.

So far it seems to work.

Now i just need to calculate the last attack in serie.
I have a feeling it uses druids 13 in frames, instead of 7.

I will check.
The regular one, not used for fury.... Does take away 1 frame in the end.
Frames = {256*(Base + 1)/[(100 + Speed Increase)/100*Animation Speed]} - 1

So if i do this (long shot) it might be correct.
Formula given by site: Frames = {256*13/[(100 + Speed increase)/100*Anim speed]} - 1

For now i checked PB 70oas and then last attack becomes 7 which is correct.. Must check more.

Oki, i checked ettin axe, giant tresher, berserker axe, pb all with 70ias in wep.
Last attack with this formula: Frames = {256*13/[(100 + Speed increase)/100*Anim speed]}- 1
I got the correct ones:
PB last frame 7
Giant tresher last frame 7
Ettin axe last frame 9
Berserker axe last frame 9

All correct so far. Think this is it.
Next is biting attacks such as rabies hunger, then bear fireclaw/norm attacks/maul/hunger.
Then
Classes.. Guessing assa is -1 or -2 compared to dudus +1 and that druids has something - who brings staffs/poleaxe low, and that sorc/barb/pala has +0 since they reach ias break on bear with 95 instead of dudus 110 or 105..



Delay:

Lets assume:
-10wsm, 60wepon ias.
*wsm is inverted. -10 * (-1)= 10.

Fist:
Formula given by site: delay = [256*(16) / [(60+10+100)*256/100]]
= 9,41 (round down to 9)

Polearm:
Formula given by site: delay = [256*(17) / [(60+10+100)*256/100]]
= 10

Anim speed(i think we use 10 for bear) :
Fist:
Formula given by site: Anim speed = [10 * 256 / 9] = 284

Polearm:
Formula given by site: Anim speed = [10 * 256 / 10] = 256

Speed increase:
Formula given by site: Speed increase = [120 * item_ias / (120 + item ias)] + skill ias + wsm <-------(if (Speed increase > 75): Speed increase = 75)

(120*0/120+0)) + 0 + 10 = 10

Frames:
Formula given by site: Frames = {256*13/[(100 + Speed increase)/100*Anim speed]} - 1

Fist:
{256*13/[(100+10)/100*284]} - 1 =
3328 / [(110/28400]} - 1 =

Nah this dont give any point. I never figured out the werebear formula lol xD

Anyway, the delay is 1 less.
The regular difference between a pb (19base speed, -30wsm) and a giant tresher (17base speed, -10wsm) is that both hit 4 frames, but the polearm needs 10ias offhand.

So we can say that 2 less delay acts as almost 20wsm faster, and then maby 1 less delay helps like 10wsm faster.
Which means we might be able to reach 4 frames with eth botd gt, and maby a eth 70ias gt. Or Even 80 ias rare with 2 shael.
Imaggine fireclaw with eth self repl 300ed/80ias/giant tresher.
Or maby same as pb... Maby only need 70? Maby can reach faster attacks?

Its worth to test some ^^
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Sep 28 2021 11:11am
Okay, bow is also 16 speed.

So as a bear i would need 95ias with a -10 wsm wep as a boxer bear.
A pb with -30 ias would require less i guess. But this i cannot use ias calc for. Cause there dont exists -30 wsm bow bases, and i cannot modify its wsm with fana, because bear dont work that way.

Anyway:
5 x ias jool + shael warschyte > 4 x shael + 2 ias jool warshyte.

95ias/503ar/15ed
95ias/75@/3ar/15ed
95ias/303ar/30@/15ed

Or:
Eth gt: shaelshaelshaelshael/55ed/95ias/3ar/indestructible

Phaseblade is -30 wsm, so on a bow animation speed it will require quite little.
So im guessing it can reach max ias with either 70-75-80 wep ias.
But need to test.

Maby 110ias hits new breakpoint? Maby 120ias does?

This post was edited by gel87 on Sep 28 2021 11:24am
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Sep 28 2021 12:15pm
Did something wrong.
95wepias+25ias = 4 frames on -10wsm base
100wepias+20ias = 4 frames on -10wsm base
105wepias+15ias = 4 frames on -10wsm base
110wepias+10ias = 4 frames on -10wsm base

According to calc

I find this wierd...
Cause that is the same as polearm.

But polearm is 17 and bow is 16 in animation base speed.


Meanwhile:
On the beastmaster wearing cadeus beast scepter he will with reach 6 frames with 10 gear ias. If he manage to boxer bug it, but he wont due to low requirements.

Yes its so confusing xD
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Sep 28 2021 12:29pm
Quote (Ironboar @ Sep 27 2021 11:45pm)
I made a native attack chart:

https://i.imgur.com/JutlvcS.png

Wolf box: wolf or bear form native I believe is way more slower, Fury & Feral Rage don't work.
Paladin 7F bp: that's the reason why no benefit from box smite, smite 6F, glitch made it even worse
Zeal: on a pal, so far I haven't find any way to glitch it, but the most important, it's meaningless, BP of Pal is only 7F, even boxing works, 7F << 4F normal Zeal

Whirlwind: works as usual in half boxer (botd + grief 4F)
Zerk/Conc/Bash barb: can break 9F zerk to 6F if u got enough offwp ias. not big benefit cuz 9F zerk is already powerful, 9F berserk destroys A5 Tower 0.48~0.52 sec, 6F needs 0.2~0.25 sec, not that obvious.
Frenzy: so far only skill get big benefit, 3F (not sure if it's actually 2.5F)


When u display it like that its with whatever wsm hands have.
I guess hands has 0wsm.

So lets use sorc as an example, swords stops at 10frame attacks, knives at 9 frame attacks. Hands goes further.
Breakpoints with hands:
54/86/152?

Eias = (120*ias)/(120+ias) - wsm + skillias

(120*54) / (120+54) = 37 eias
(120*86) / (120+86) = 50 eias
(120*152) / (120+152) = 67 eias

Now, if u equip a pb (-30wsm) u reach 67 eias break with 54ias...
(120*54) / (120+54) - (-30) = 67eias.

So u have a +1 rangeadder wep and can reach 8 frames attack by dex bugging pb.

25 / 8 = 3,125 attacks pr second, my pvp melee sorc had 87k dmg.
Thats pretty sweet ^^
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Sep 28 2021 01:00pm
Frames:
Formula given by site: Frames = {256*13/[(100 + Speed increase)/100*Anim speed]} - 1

Fist:
{256*13/[(100+10)/100*284]} - 1 =
3328 / [(110/28400]} - 1 =

Was hard on calc on phone.
256 * 13 / (110 / 100 * 284)
256 * 13 / (1,1 * 284)
3328 / 312 = 10,66

Still wrong, i think there is something concerning speed increase formula on bear which i dont know. Cause using 6 or 7 or 9 or 10 or 13 etc does not matter. Cause it dont fit calc. Ias offhand has to much to offer in this formula on bear.

This post was edited by gel87 on Sep 28 2021 01:01pm
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Sep 28 2021 01:46pm
This side shows the base speed of different wepon types.
Amazon gets a really fast base attack animation of 13 with hth weps.
https://www.mannm.org/d2library/faqtoids/animspeed.html

Also, for some classes it might change fhr.

Throwing skills also get a penalty of 30, however this May be by-passed by using hands. If u can throw with red weps??

Amazon hand ias according to ur table:
48 - 8 frame
86 - 7 frame
180 - 6 frame

(120*48)/(120+48) = 34 eias
(120*86)/(120+86) = 50 eias
(120*180)/(120+180) = 72 eias

So basicly u reach 7 frames cs with:
60ias if -10 wsm wep like matri javs.

U reach 6 frames cs with:
130ias if -10 wsm wep like matri javs

Throwing i dno how will work...




Would be lovely if cta of destruction could still be made.
That thing is a cta with +10 dex.

Then by having a pb on other side with +9dex jool and skilling until 127dex then could dex bug

This post was edited by gel87 on Sep 28 2021 02:00pm
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Sep 28 2021 02:39pm


Impale zon
u're right, dps dmg per sec right? I'll keep that in mind when doing that test.

Throw barb & boxer-possibility
I tried wps u mentioned (unique winged knife, winged axe, WSM with Ghost Glaive, that's really good combo, but
do u use any Item editors? "dex + str mixing" glitch is the hope to try this, need the G-Glaive have +dex mods,
theoretically, "+9dex +9str -15%require" jewel'd Valk, an eth winged, a +dex e G-Glaive is needed.

Werebear & throwing
I now going to try bear, and boxing throwing zon, I'm pessimistic about both, those skill can't get the attack speed bonus like Frenzy,,,

This post was edited by Ironboar on Sep 28 2021 02:48pm
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Sep 28 2021 03:08pm
Quote (Ironboar @ Sep 28 2021 10:39pm)
^gel87

Impale zon
u're right, dps dmg per sec right? I'll keep that in mind when doing that test.

Throw barb & boxer-possibility
I tried wps u mentioned (unique winged knife, winged axe, WSM with Ghost Glaive, that's really good combo, but
do u use any Item editors? "dex + str mixing" glitch is the hope to try this, need the G-Glaive have +dex mods,
theoretically, "+9dex +9str -15%require" jewel'd Valk, an eth winged, a +dex e G-Glaive is needed.

Werebear & throwing
I now going to try bear, and boxing throwing zon, I'm pessimistic about both, those skill can't get the attack speed bonus like Frenzy,,,


Mine is online sry.. The throw barb..

But why do wep need the stats? If ur forexample str bug upped jalals, jalals then again carry wepon?

Ur for a sorc, u str bug armor, and armor has 9dex to carry wep?
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