why is foh/smite > bvc? foh isn't hard to negate is it? and if pally chooses to run around using foh couldn't the bvc use widow? I've seen some bvc do a bit of dmg with widow

FoH makes the barb approach, which is what the v/t wants him to do

listen to this old adage

in the top level, foh is basically useless. A barb can teleww faster than a pally can press W and turn off conviction, etc.
its a very minor part of anti-barb smiter vs anti-smite barb. Its assumed that the barb will have as many 11% res scs as it takes, and can optionally use tgods over dungos for a T/V instead of V/T

no, the real threat to barbs is tele-smiting. FOH is more of a liability than a help, like a barb using widowmaker.
a pally trying to sync around and foh a barb and switch to smite when he attacks will not be able to react in time and will get shitstomped.

I wasn't saying Bvc always loses just that's more of a challenge for sure
A pure smiter will never beat a Bvc idc how good the smiter or player is

In a theoretical setup with absolutely perfect players using perfect chars, a BvC loses far less marginal utility in countering a V/T's foh than a V/T loses by investing in FOH.
In order to counter FOH, a BvC can lose one or both of:
A.) 36 AR per sc -> 11% light resist
B.) Dungos -> T-Gods.

So the barb loses a bit of attack rating, or maybe goes from 50% to 39% DR. Thats the worst case. Against smiters with just 1 point foh or 6/6/4/3/3/3's or non-maxed synergies or conviction or whatever, the barb can keep his dungos and use very few charms


Meanwhile, what does the smiter lose? To be most effective against a barb, he wants to max
Holy Shield
Smite
Fanaticism
Defiance.
Thats 84/101 skill points right there.
To get FOH, you want;
FOH
Holy Shock
Conviction
Thats 68/101 skill points.

Now obviously a V/T doesn't have 152 skill points, so you end up sacrificing something for something. And you'll have to lose Smite effectiveness to get FOH effectiveness.
Even getting conviction from your CTA, you're looking at a build that loses 20 defiance and 2 smite, or 20 smite and 2 defiance, or so on.
Either way, you're sacrificing a fair amount in order to get a powered FOH- or you're not getting a powered FOH, and the barb can counter it without even subbing charms/tgods anyways


Then, beyond building the characters, even when in dueling, any time a pally puts on FOH and comes within range of a barb, sync ww and tele ww provide him an easy way to jump the paladin while conviction is still out.
Its a huge liability to try to be shaving off ~50 hp from a barb with FOH when he might instantaneously appear on top of you whirling away and shave 3000+ HP off you.




But this is stuff I hate- all dumb theorycraft. The best barb against the best pally, a duel that has never happened and there are not nor ever have been people to build such characters to utter perfection on closed or design characters specifically counter to each other in a nash equilibrium, anyway. Back in reality land, theres like 5 people who know how to do anti-barb smiters right and actually put up a good fight. Anyone you meet on JSP or a pub will just fold in half to a brawler when you tear away their ability to shiftsmite with 2x eth lacerators, and ww away. NN for fancy builds or perfect inventories there.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jul 4 2011 11:08pm

barb could use decrepify and grief/doom and will win, izdatright?

dudu

Yup.

imo any decent Smiter owns most Barbs easily except for the gg ones, those its more like 50/50 depending on the users.

Smiter>=Bvc but its close.

also Smiter with 1818 Vortex + Maxed Defiance >>> All Babas foreva.

This post was edited by Andrewchos on Jul 5 2011 04:46am

anything but the best telesmiters gets raped by a barb that does nothing but throw axes when you shiftsmite and whirl away when you charge/smite or telesmite
and only the godliest setup of the most skilled player on a telesmiter with auraflash makes it into the pallys favor- and an equally skilled barb with sync ww and his own auraflash easily beats that.

on equal skill levels, barb rapes smiter hard



well, for medium and high skill levels. Retards that try to whirl through shift smiters that are on your dueling level, yeah I'm sure. But retard vs retard duels don't really prove anything. Good entertainment tho I'm sure. Like that scene in They Live with rowdy roddy piper