shaman druids are useless in serious pvp anyways... even without dwarf or hotspur at 75% fcr and 75% fire res i was able to beat u w/o even using teleport on my nec...

if u make a useless pvp character u deserve to lose. do not complain because the specific class you are choosing is weak and designed for pvm or the like. that is like saying smiter shouldnt be allowed to use smite vs a kicker because smite overpower the kicker sin... dont make a kicker if u cant handle the challenge

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Jul 19 2010 09:37am

I agree with this. (well, minus the "deserving" to lose part, not sure if I would use that word, "accepting" a loss and knowingly playing under class disadvantage is more what I think you were trying to say) Class advantages and some hard counters still exist under gm rules. So what that a smiter will still stomp a cs zon with no sorb on. class advantages exist in d2 and there is nothing wrong with it. However most classes being shut down by sorb in matchups that they would otherwise have a chance in (even if it is still not an even duel).. that is something that can be fixed by the sorb rule and is why a lot of players enjoy playing under GM rules.

also quoting myself again:


This post was edited by Ziecheik on Jul 19 2010 09:42am

when you calculate the cast rate the dmg over time is balanced between a necro wearing hotspurs and a fire ball sorc

i dont want your fg but i will duel you when I am on.

You can use as much ES as you want.

Lol
If by "serious PvP" you mean being in the top 10% or 5% in the duelling community, then yes ofc. There IS a reason after all that trappers, bonemancers, hammerdins/ smiters, wind druids, fireball/ blizz sorcs are cookie cutters and they're extremely good for a reason.
Pitting a good CC against a non-CC, both players of equal caliber, the CC will most often win- I'm not argueing you there.

But the reason to make a non-CC is for the challenge. It's not hard to become decent on a CC and clear a pub, or do OK in priv games (imo). Yes, it does take some skill to become "amazing" at said class because anyone can be "decent." That being said, it's the challenge that people are looking for- taking an underrated build and totally outplaying the other opponent so that it is out in the open who won.

About your kicker verse smiter allusion- I don't see the comparison to Shaman v Bonemancer as you can't sorb kicks or smites, this is just a character advantage.
About our match- you'll notice we only played ft4 before you left, where the first 2 you did use teleport and could have gone either way. The last two where you didn't teleport I admit I played like crap and lost.



Oh yeah- I was never argueing about the Bonemancer verse Fireball aspect; it's the Bonemancer verse Fire druid that I'm saying is unbalanced.

And I completely agree with Ziecheik. Anyone making a non-CC and expecting to 5-0 everyone is delusional. The character is made for a fun twist on PvP and for the challenging aspect of being the underdog

This post was edited by CompanyOfThree on Jul 19 2010 09:47am

Agreed. I think the easiest way to put it is that the gameplay aspect of D2 is fine, but some of the items quite clearly alter gameplay considerably and have a serious balance issue. not really sure if I agree that necs should still be able to use hots vs shamans though since the only reason they were exempt from the 10% rule in the first place was because of fb sorcs.

This post was edited by Tails chao on Jul 19 2010 09:55am

The surprise factor is also really cool when playing with non c/c, many players who would be fine versus the cookie builds don't have the tools to defeat something they rarely see XD For example my friend, who is very good on a windy, lost horribly at first to my fury/rabies druid (like he wouldn't even let me heal in between duels to make it fair). Once he dueled me more he could eventually flawless me (stomping a fury druid on an 8 dr vita windy takes a lot of guts), but before he worked out a strategy to deal with an unexpected build he was toast.

As for the nec/shaman thing yeah hots are overpowered, but CompanyOfThree is the only person I've seen using a shaman on a ladder (where these rules would be enforced, gm duels between friends would probably be regulated differently, eg 75 res versus shaman) it seems like to alter the hotspur rule for necs would be catering to a VERY niche market ^^

bm >


This post was edited by sevlo on Jul 19 2010 09:58am

ROFL

but i want yours