ya u suk loluzzzzzzzzzzzz

the dmg aspect becomes more important every day for me ^^
i tried a setup with lvl 47mb yesterday in a 1n1 vs druid, and ya, it does its job^^
its astonishing how much the dmg stacks over the time.
You just have to think about how many times you cast mb during a duel, i think its like 1xx or even more in long duels. This means also that lifereplenish from the opponent is totally fucked up, since u take away that life over and over again only with mb.

fb is imo totally gozu for stunning, but trading high/max mb for fb dmg isnt the best deal _imo_

i take the fhr fully into account in my calculations, it means you get 2% extra life vs 4-5% extra damage with griffs. the frw i can't really "calculate" since it's an intangible, as i've said, if you really like it then use valk, but i'd test it out first because it's really very low, only about 5%.

as far as wsm bug...well i used to use it but now i prefer a 15/15 since i have a switch for max dr and cbf, so i'd quite possibly use a 15 allres jewel in a valk if i used one anyway. partly this is cause wsm bug is a pain what with somewhat short bo duration (although it's longer with griffs.... ), and also becaues i just thought it was lame, since it's a bug. like i say though, if you can get a valk, imo you can get a 2/3/2/30 for the same effect.

anyway, at least on my build ww is a somewhat ok additional damage source since i've got 50/25 OW plus low-level venom and phys/magic damage. so it's not JUST for anti-stun and defensive whirling, imo it's got uses in every duel except barbs and ghosts, which is where i don't use it anyway again though, that's total opinion.

EDIT: max mindblast IS pretty sexy i must admit btw

This post was edited by darcanegel on May 24 2008 05:44am

when i want OW against, i choose a 2socks fools and kicks. considering you got no venom and close to no phys dmg with ww combined with very low AR, i find that kicks are more useful than ww on this char as an additional offensive attack.
as well kicks provide more comfort insofar that it kinda .. fits better into the trap/mb/fblast/kick pattern with re-summoning traps etc than WW. you kick 1 series to deliver OW, set 1-2 more traps, fblast or kick once more etc, its easier to combine i find. better "flow" overall. also you can chainlock kicks :-)


which leads to the next point which i actually wanted to discuss later.
usefulness of kicks or the role of kicks on a trapper. i dont know. feel free to post your thoughts now, or lets do it later and stay a bit on-topic @ MB vs FBlast.



ps. Pwnography would rape ibs so ez its not even funny lmfao ~~

yeh the AR is low, it's mostly vs ES sorcs an such, but here's sort of a brief rundown of how i think ww is useful in all situations:

bowas: additional stun...whenever i tele-whirl on top of them they seem to basically stop, allowing traps to hit them. plus OW while i do that i spose.
trappers: ww out of stun to avoid losing block
bvc: no use, but i use w/s vs bvc (same for ghost)
druid: additional stun, OW, etc.
nec: maybe useful for OW but i haven't really tested it much vs necro
hammer: down-ww
smiter: whirl-away
sorc: OW

so i think it's got a use in almost every duel, even if it's a bit of a loss of skills...anyway my shadow skills are pretty solid anyway thx to dancers so it's really just a few hundred trap damage. kicks are nice for OW and ok for stun but they don't do anti-stun or whirl-away or down-ww.

imo.

well did u ever test the kick dmg?^^

vs druids necs sorcs (8dr chars) its insane, and more than a second dmg source.

€: also torchfire triggers quite often wich is nice extra stun

This post was edited by harry_haller on May 24 2008 06:28am

bow: i never lost to bow in my life ft5. its not possible in gm duels on a sin unless you suck. i play 102/86 maxblock max DR, get in without getting hit and chainlock until they die. this can take some time vs vitzons with BO but you will still be the winner. also, fblast in the right moment can really fuck them up as well as MB wears down a lot of life when they WSG since half of the time they will be on faith with lliterally no DR at all.

trapper: a sin that tries WW away is lost. ww as the only measn to get out of traps is very hard and only works against bad sins or if you are lucky. when i duel a barb that does not use WSG and ww only, i namelock him maybe 1-3 times thought the entire duel and chase him while always re-locking and re-trapping. he cant get away and the same counts for wwing sins. especially if they have to use fade in order to keep their desired amount of LR. you could mix up ww and wsg, yes. but i find wsg alone makes sure that you almost dont get hit and get away fast so you dont really really need clawblock. getting away faster is more important imho.

bvc: what you said.

druid: ok that is maybe right. i dont know whether it would make so much of a difference though.

nec: ww against nec is only really useful if you use ww to kill, really. like on ghost where you simply shredder through him. if oyu want to sneak in for ow, i find kicks better and it also fits better into that fblast stomp tactic.

hammer: yes

smiter: smiter with good telesmiting abilities will have an easy time hitting you while whirling with fade, especially since your melee damage doesnt force him to retreat at all. maybe this is also a realm specific thing but on europe, smiters carry lots of slow and use HF in gm duels. and exile ^^ i find its not really fair neither but it makes that ww is useless here whatsoever.
my and chris' (harry_haller) solution for this is playing w/s 102/86 block max DR BoS setup with active shadow even if there is a chance to tap it and make massive use of grashopper style teleport and a very heavy trapfield. while oyu teleport around like mad, your SM makes sure that he will always have swirlies and your traps to the rets of the work. they can hardly if at all hit you with smite since their teles keep getting interupted by fhr all the time, combined with the problem of getting a namelock on a sin thats teleporting like crazy with 5 traps close and firing and an SM spamming. also you can run away from smite as soon as you eat one hit by mistake with 86fhr and that really high FRW with BoS. most smiters will go for charge-only then and only smite when they charge and it gets blocked so they directly stand in front of you (which wont happen if you play correctly .. whatever)

sorc: ww would work but so do kicks. preferane probably. i always like it when i can chainlock after kicking with FBlast.

i would hope so ibs is kinda mule...

lol got raped too hard i guess so you del kk izi m8

Whilrling in Trap vs Trap gives the other Trapper a huge advantage. You will take more hits than if you just ran out.