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Poll > Hybrid Ww/trap Assassin V1.8 > Some Minor Updates, Enjoy
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Sep 10 2009 04:50pm
voted 5, to piss you off
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Sep 10 2009 04:52pm
Quote (WhiteEvil @ Thu, 10 Sep 2009, 16:50)
voted 5, to piss you off


Not working :/
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Sep 10 2009 04:53pm
Quote (young2093 @ Fri, 11 Sep 2009, 00:52)
Not working :/


damn :(
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Sep 10 2009 06:28pm
Quote (young2093 @ Thu, Sep 10 2009, 02:49pm)
??I've included everything you brought up that isn't against my opinions..


What are you talking about? You HAVEN'T included any kind of meaningful discussion on the various sin builds in your guide, you HAVEN'T included anything on when to use dclaw versus ww, you HAVEN'T included anything on when to use cos or the pros and cons of it, you HAVEN'T changed the res/life scs on the sb build to max/ar/life scs, you HAVEN'T taken the valk out. Either put those things in the guild or tell me why you won't. "I'm lazy and so I don't want to improve my guide" is not a very good answer to why you won't include things.
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Sep 10 2009 06:34pm
Quote (xSmithenatorx2 @ Thu, 10 Sep 2009, 18:28)
What are you talking about? You HAVEN'T included any kind of meaningful discussion on the various sin builds in your guide


The Standard Hybrid is a balanced build with substantial WW and LS damage, and is the most common of the listed builds. The Trap based Hybrid will use the same skills as a Standard Hybrid, but focus more gear towards LS damage. The Shadow Bruiser is a Standard Hybrid with a 20 pt Claw Mastery, leaving it with a higher WW damage and more AR, but a dent in trap damage. Lastly, the Stalker is a Standard Hybrid with a 20 pt Mind Blast for increased MB damage, stun acceptance duration, and more frequent SM spam.

Quote (xSmithenatorx2)
you HAVEN'T included anything on when to use dclaw versus ww


Section VIII: Dueling tactics

Quote (xSmithenatorx2)
you HAVEN'T included anything on when to use cos or the pros and cons of it


Use CoS willingly, lower defense = better chance for you to hit them.

Quote (xSmithenatorx2)
you HAVEN'T changed the res/life scs on the sb build to max/ar/life scs, you HAVEN'T taken the valk out. Either put those things in the guild or tell me why you won't. "I'm lazy and so I don't want to improve my guide" is not a very good answer to why you won't include things.


Opinions.


????????

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Sep 10 2009 07:08pm
Quote (young2093 @ Thu, Sep 10 2009, 04:34pm)
The Standard Hybrid is a balanced build with substantial WW and LS damage, and is the most common of the listed builds. The Trap based Hybrid will use the same skills as a Standard Hybrid, but focus more gear towards LS damage. The Shadow Bruiser is a Standard Hybrid with a 20 pt Claw Mastery, leaving it with a higher WW damage and more AR, but a dent in trap damage. Lastly, the Stalker is a Standard Hybrid with a 20 pt Mind Blast for increased MB damage, stun acceptance duration, and more frequent SM spam.


Bullshit, that is a few sentences that say absolutely nothing. Any moron can tell that a trap based hybrid has higher traps. What I mean is for what purpose would you build a trap based hybrid instead of a ww based? Which duels benefit from more traps and which are hindered by the lack of ww damage? Against what opponents is the 20mb more important than 20cm? What you have is a reiteration of the character titles that helps no one.



Quote (young2093 @ Thu, Sep 10 2009, 04:34pm)
Section VIII: Dueling tactics


All you say on the difference between the two is that dclaw "works best when you are involving a stun sequence into your chains." That's it. I mean hell, chaining with ww is practically never done, you might as well just say "This works best whenever you are chaining". Write up what the actual difference is between the two techniques.



Quote (young2093 @ Thu, Sep 10 2009, 04:34pm)
Use CoS willingly, lower defense = better chance for you to hit them.


I disagree. Lower defense is nice against smiters, hdins, and maybe javazons, but what about the wimpy sorceress that zip around with 1.5k defense? Against sorceress or necromancers or druids with virtually no defense the decrease in sight far outweighs the very slight increase in cth given by the cos.

Quote (young2093 @ Thu, Sep 10 2009, 04:34pm)
Opinions.


Wwsins are pretty easy to get resistances on if you make sure to get res on your jewelry and circlet. I had no problem at all reaching max res without res/life scs, and every bit of damage helps when you have all that ed and deadly strike.

You can't just say "opinion" and hope to get away with it. I am well aware it is your opinion, otherwise you probably wouldn't have put it in the guide. Defending your opinion is what I am after.



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Sep 10 2009 07:17pm
Quote (xSmithenatorx2 @ Thu, 10 Sep 2009, 19:08)
Bullshit, that is a few sentences that say absolutely nothing. Any moron can tell that a trap based hybrid has higher traps. What I mean is for what purpose would you build a trap based hybrid instead of a ww based? Which duels benefit from more traps and which are hindered by the lack of ww damage? Against what opponents is the 20mb more important than 20cm? What you have is a reiteration of the character titles that helps no one.


A guide is not meant to spoon feed the fuck out of someone, I'm pointing them in the general direction. AS SAID BEFORE, THE BENEFITS OF EACH ARE RATHER OBVIOUS TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO ACTUALLY PUT SOME EFFORT INTO THEIR CHARACTER.





Quote
All you say on the difference between the two is that dclaw "works best when you are involving a stun sequence into your chains." That's it. I mean hell, chaining with ww is practically never done, you might as well just say "This works best whenever you are chaining". Write up what the actual difference is between the two techniques.


There is a COMPLETE hybrid v class strategy section there, AGAIN ANOTHER SITUATION WHERE IT'S OBVIOUS WHAT TO DO. You should be DClawing most casters without a melee option, but of course you wouldn't DCLAW a hdin.





Quote
I disagree. Lower defense is nice against smiters, hdins, and maybe javazons, but what about the wimpy sorceress that zip around with 1.5k defense? Against sorceress or necromancers or druids with virtually no defense the decrease in sight far outweighs the very slight increase in cth given by the cos.


WILLINGLY. Key words... why would you CoS a character with 1.5k defense? Am I to assume the reader has absolutely no common sense?



Quote
Wwsins are pretty easy to get resistances on if you make sure to get res on your jewelry and circlet. I had no problem at all reaching max res without res/life scs, and every bit of damage helps when you have all that ed and deadly strike.

You can't just say "opinion" and hope to get away with it. I am well aware it is your opinion, otherwise you probably wouldn't have put it in the guide. Defending your opinion is what I am after.


It's good to have a little extra resistances, and I for one DID have numerous problems reaching 75 resists, and it's ideal to go for a little more than that. You argue that every little bit of damage helps and yet you neglect a Highlords on your SB? You'll argue for...+30 damage (before ed etc) and not 100% increase in your physical damage?

There's my opinion....

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Sep 10 2009 07:40pm
Quote (young2093 @ Thu, Sep 10 2009, 05:17pm)
A guide is not meant to spoon feed the fuck out of someone, I'm pointing them in the general direction. AS SAID BEFORE, THE BENEFITS OF EACH ARE RATHER OBVIOUS TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO ACTUALLY PUT SOME EFFORT INTO THEIR CHARACTER.



Why would you list 4 builds in your strategy guide, then force someone to play the character, possibly building a version of the hybrid that didn't actually suit their needs, just to learn which build they actually want? One of the questions I get asked the most (second to claw ias questions >_>) is whether or not they should build a ww based hybrid or a trap based hybrid.




Quote (young2093 @ Thu, Sep 10 2009, 05:17pm)
There is a COMPLETE hybrid v class strategy section there, AGAIN ANOTHER SITUATION WHERE IT'S OBVIOUS WHAT TO DO. You should be DClawing most casters without a melee option, but of course you wouldn't DCLAW a hdin.




So tell people that, it is easier to write in your guide "Dclaw casters without a melee option" than it is to argue with me on whether or not to include that piece of information in your guide. That besides, ww has uses over dclaw against any character that can quickly get out of your locks. I personally prefer ww over dclaw against druids, against trappers (obviously), against bowazons (who can quickly run out of your locks), and against lower fcr sorceress.



Quote (young2093 @ Thu, Sep 10 2009, 05:17pm)
WILLINGLY. Key words... why would you CoS a character with 1.5k defense? Am I to assume the reader has absolutely no common sense?



Willingly just means "do it when you want to", that doesn't give any helpful advice. If you tell me to "fire at will" it means "fire whenever you please" not "evaluate the situation, and only fire if they are within 20 and 100 feet but are not laying down cover fire". Give people more guidance on the times that cos is a good idea and the times that it will hinder their namelocks while not providing any significant improvement.


Quote (young2093 @ Thu, Sep 10 2009, 05:17pm)
It's good to have a little extra resistances, and I for one DID have numerous problems reaching 75 resists, and it's ideal to go for a little more than that. You argue that every little bit of damage helps and yet you neglect a Highlords on your SB? You'll argue for...+30 damage (before ed etc) and not 100% increase in your physical damage?

There's my opinion....


What? I have always used highlords on my shadowbruiser, when did I ever say I didn't?
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Sep 10 2009 07:46pm
Quote (xSmithenatorx2 @ Thu, 10 Sep 2009, 19:40)
Why would you list 4 builds in your strategy guide, then force someone to play the character, possibly building a version of the hybrid that didn't actually suit their needs, just to learn which build they actually want? One of the questions I get asked the most (second to claw ias questions >_>) is whether or not they should build a ww based hybrid or a trap based hybrid.


Missing the point completely IC.


Quote
So tell people that, it is easier to write in your guide "Dclaw casters without a melee option" than it is to argue with me on whether or not to include that piece of information in your guide. That besides, ww has uses over dclaw against any character that can quickly get out of your locks. I personally prefer ww over dclaw against druids, against trappers (obviously), against bowazons (who can quickly run out of your locks), and against lower fcr sorceress.


I personally prefer WW over Dclaw for most things except a vita nec and some sorcs, as explained in....oh yep, you got it, STRATEGY.






Quote
Willingly just means "do it when you want to", that doesn't give any helpful advice. If you tell me to "fire at will" it means "fire whenever you please" not "evaluate the situation, and only fire if they are within 20 and 100 feet but are not laying down cover fire". Give people more guidance on the times that cos is a good idea and the times that it will hinder their namelocks while not providing any significant improvement.


The point was to do it when you see fit, the difference is very small in not using and using CoS as far as "seeing" goes..




Quote
What? I have always used highlords on my shadowbruiser, when did I ever say I didn't?


You definetly used a Maras...are am I completely mistaken?

This post was edited by young2093 on Sep 10 2009 07:46pm
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Sep 10 2009 07:57pm
Quote (young2093 @ Thu, Sep 10 2009, 05:46pm)
Missing the point completely IC.


How so? Looks to me like, barr theorycrafting, to figure out which hybrid someone wants to use they will need to play at least 2 different builds because there isn't any discussion on the individual builds to guide them


Quote (young2093 @ Thu, Sep 10 2009, 05:46pm)
I personally prefer WW over Dclaw for most things except a vita nec and some sorcs, as explained in....oh yep, you got it, STRATEGY.



Alright, you got me, you list which skill (dlcaw or ww) in almost all of the duels, I hadn't checked thoroughly enough before and glazed over alot of them. My apologies. I still think you should spell out more in depth the strengths and weaknesses of each skill, but it isn't nearly as pressing of a priority as I though it was.

Soz



Quote (young2093 @ Thu, Sep 10 2009, 05:46pm)
The point was to do it when you see fit, the difference is very small in not using and using CoS as far as "seeing" goes..



I tested it earlier today using my traps, and the distance you can see from your character in any direction is nearly halved when using cos. Obviously traps are an extreme example, but you see my point, no?



Quote (young2093 @ Thu, Sep 10 2009, 05:46pm)
You definetly used a Maras...are am I completely mistaken?


I exaggerated when I said that I "always" used highlords. When I first built benign I used a maras because I wasn't sure how my mix of traps vs ww was going to be or how the stats would fall. However, as I played the sb more and more I decided to switch to a highlords for that extra oomph. Not sure if I switched after or before I met you, who can say.
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