dungo only gives 15 dr
with the 20 dr from bb u can cut 4 shadow sks which you would need with ber ber
and u open the sox from the helmed and u can fix the mana issue with a life mana ammy
also dungo doesnt give the 10% slow which is not that bad in mirror

i use 2 different visis on my hybsin:
one with shael + 7 fhr jool for gore hl combo vs non pys dmg casters (with arach)

the other is jah jah and i use it with dancers + bb for mirror and any matchup where i need 50 dr
i reach:
9.9k trap dmg
50 dr
5000 ar chaos side
and 2xxx max dmg on chaos gclaw (raw pys dmg part)
4935 life
74x mana
9 fpa

This post was edited by MoXeR on Oct 20 2011 07:59am

2000 max is a HUGE diff than 4.2k ww on chaos gclaw....

i can see where ur trying to come at with maybe 2x 30/60/9/9 jewels... but 37% DS and 20ias is pretty damn tough to top

and if ur talkin about swaps (vs physical and vs overall).... i'd use a berber setup... and a set up with 2x 30/60/9/9 for raw damage...

as for life, we already determined that anything more than 4750ish is not really needed (this is how much u need to tank 3 hammers) - I dont get 4.7k on this build... but jah runes are a waste. u have to remember, we not a ghost sin.... hybrids dont have as much trouble vs hdins due to the 8-9k trap damage

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Oct 20 2011 10:15am

the pys dmg is w/o venom..
and about the 30/60/9/9
i had these in the visi where i mentioned the jah runes
and i am going to cube this helmed with a hel once ladder resets
2500 fg but w/e

ofc ur gonna pick the ber ber and hl version
its not like u had a choice ^^

This post was edited by MoXeR on Oct 20 2011 11:02am

5 dr isnt really a big difference, 13 rep is.

fair point about slow though.

with bb u have 6 to trap sks more
5 more skillers cause u can cut shadows
and 1 all skills



This post was edited by MoXeR on Oct 20 2011 11:46am

i'd use more shadows anyway, but if you want more trap damage you don't *have* to use more shadows, just deal with lower dr.

well bb is by far / way / extremely superior than dungo

> +1skils / + 5%dr = you can put up to 6x trapskillers when you need, maintaining the %block and max%dr, being able to reach up to +6 LS compared to dungo, and ofc +1 skills = you can use 1 extra trapskiller instead of shadowskiller, maintaining all bp/%block/%dr etc on main setup.

> extra 10%ias / 10%slow / 40 BOABLE stats / 20@allres... , no point imo

13rep = 76life per minute on the other hand
__________

how jools boost you dmg?

remember this is not a barb, and phys damage is affected by few%ed from ofhand: few +% clawmastery / -%from ww / +% from str/dex

if you get 2x 40/9/9 jools, thats = to 80 + (36*0.75) = 107%enhanced damage (just like having 27 extra points in claw mastery )

this 107%dmg, with my main claw for example (check my profile), pushes my max physiscal dmg from 15xx to 19xx which is around ~ +27% physical damage increase, in either min/max from fools / gchaos, all phys dmg sources, and the same % for non eth claws

on the other hand, highlords adds ~ +29-30% average physical damage increase, which is only 2-3% more average phys dmg added.

on top of that you have to remember that your ww damage is physical + venom + ow + magic dmg from chaos + coold dmg from raven (lol), that means, that, in my case for example, the advantage of highlords vs jools in terms of phys dmg on ww varies somewhere from 1% to 3%

while the benefits from bugbelt + fcr amulet + jools is way better than hl + arach

for example, i use 30ed 9str 9dex +4 lifrep jools on helm

on top of that, you can get either masslife/mass@ or life/mana str/life etc from amulet which boosts your life a chunk

not to mention that in case you have 20@ from bb and 20@ from amulet = 40@ you can swap 8x 20/5's for 8x 3 20 20's if you want even more phys dmg/ar at same @resist

________

yes its realm specific and its the first thing i said no?

no it's not, even if you're arguing that bb is better on a sin you can't say it's "way better" or "extremely better". the difference between both belts is marginal.



because dungo doesn't let you use trap skillers? the only difference is the dr you have, not the trap damage you lose (and this only applies if you actually use trap skillers in the first place).

and you don't maintain the same block % with bb+6 less skillers, just the same dr%, where did the idea that bugbelt gives +6 block come from?



10 ias: useful if your claw is too slow
10% slow: useful, but only in like 3 match-ups
stats: big deal
20 res: lose 6 max/40 ar/40 life, big deal



and also the ability to force your opponent to approach you if it's necessary



stat points are 0.5 ed



fair enough



Disagree. You can use 2 different circlets, you know.



indeed

yo

This post was edited by reyrol on Oct 21 2011 05:52am

yeah if you use feral fair enough, was thinking more about runic but i can see it being useful in that case.

and I was referring to 20/11s but if you use 20/5s that's a different story.



that's true but you only get 27 feasibly (or 37 on d2pk with 10 rep circ), dungo gets you 40. does europe still have a rep cap of 33?



ok fair enough ^^



yeah that's what I mean, there's not really a lot of matchups where you actually use dr and you generally have advantage in those matchups anyway (druid, zon). I guess if you mirror match-up a lot though it's a different story.