dragon claw or dragon talon only

everything else is right side

people who put ww on their left click cant chainlock well and its hard to do short triangle wws

Getting a bit hostile after a bit of criticism there.

Really though, if you lost a set of duels to a non-immune fb sorc you did something wrong and your mistake is the cause of your loss, not the matchup or boxing or whatever.
Comparing phyzer to a realm sorc is silly, a regular rep/mdr sorc is nowhere near that, not without the massive mana%/life rep/7skill/++ gained by the illegal scs on top of tier items. Nowhere near the same.

Also did you just call me out to wwsin vs your 105 sorc? I'll have to politely turn that duel down cause I cant run d2pk at the moment (no cd drive in my comp at the moment, no cd image to use with magicdisk) but thats not a duel a wwsin or hybrid should lose a set of 1v1 to. Also why did you bring up ghost vs trap? that is so irrelevant to this conversation, (in the same way as me bringing up how you didn't avoid my chainlocks in the wwsin vs nec duels we had if we are to talk about your ability to break namelocks, if we are to take jabs at each other, but lets not go further with that and stay on topic :P) trappers have such an advantage vs wwsins 1v1, same as you would not catch me on a trapper if we switched around trap vs ghost, same as any high level sin players have shown in this matchup. The way trap vs wwsin goes is not the same as fb vs wwsin at all. With trap vs wwsin it's a battle of attrition, unless a player makes a big slipup its not a match that should end in a single telestomp. fb vs wwsin is all about killing the sorc in one stomp, you are right that a sorc can just box the whole time to rep back, this is why as a wwsin player you do not chase a sorc like that, you just play carefully and attempt to kill the sorc in a single stomp/stunlock, let the sorc feel comfortable boxing you then just find an opening and not let the sorc breathe. This isn't a boxing nec that has spirit spam to box 3+ screens away while being a threat. This isn't a necro that has teeth to consistently kill shadow every time you tele by him. This isn't like a trapper that has a shadow master that gets in the way and can kb interupt with mindblast, this isn't like a trapper where the wwsin has to worry about the trapper controlling all the space around him with traps while trying to find openings.
I think there is *significantly* less pressure vs a fb sorc than vs a trapper, or a nec, or whatever else. You are dueling a single projectile shooting turret, that has no minion with it to stack with, has limited range of being a threat with fb compared to trappers or necros. You even have a shadow master which is immune to every spell a fb sorc has and acts as a good meat shield and minion stack that never goes away. There is no pressure chasing a sorc 1v1. If you feel pressure chasing a sorc maybe thats why you are losing. Sorc wants to rep to full? fine. just play smart, look for the oppertunity, and kill the sorc fast once you caught it. Trust me Ive dueled players who box and are a lot more defensive than mark, it doesn't matter, no reason for the wwsin to jump into fireballs. This isn't a necro boxing or something, its a fb sorc.

Chasing a 105 sorc down with 65 isn't much of a problem either, idk why you bring it up like its so hard. Sure if the sorc only teleports away they will outteleport a 65fcr sin. However a sorc is still a fb turret with limited range, granted the sin is smart enough to not teleport in a straight line while chasing a sorc they should not run into fb spam, fb has limted range and the sorc and the sorc must at some point stop to shoot, if the sorc is doing this while boxing around corners just play smart in how you approach the sorc, watch for your shadow to cast mindblast during your teleport, pay attention to what is going on with the sorc as you try to get in namelocking distance. Once the sorc is namelocked its not hard to keep a chain 65fcr vs 105, you can catch a 200fcr sorc with 65fcr, the beauty in a dclaw/norm attack chainlock is that you control the timing on your transition to tele. The trick is not to tele at a sorc when you have have a namelock chain established, but to tele *with* the sorc, hold the namelock with the melee attack for the sorc's first tele and start your teleport during the recovery of the sorc's first teleport, the sorc will not have broken your namelock yet, you will teleport with the sorc on the sorc's second teleport even though you are at a slower cast speed. You do not need to teleport at a sorc's speed to catch a sorc.
Just take your time if the sorc wants to box and play smart. You have every advantage in this matchup. Pure trappers I can see having a problem with boxing sorcs because of how trappers need to establish a hard lock with traps to kill a sorc in one stomp, with wwsins or any ww hybrid you pose a lot more of an immediate threat to sorcs if they slip up just once.

Im not trying to be mean to you or anything, sorry if I said it's your inability to namelock at the cause of your loss, not trying to hate on you Im just calling it how I see it, if a sorc got a win by you teleporting into fb spam it was your fault for messing up somewhere in the duel and losing it, it can happen once in a while no biggie, just accept you messed up and caused your own loss. If you can't catch boxing fb sorcs on the regular with any wwsin and get bested in sets then there is something wrong there. There must be a flaw in your chasing tactics or how you approach sorcs or something, and that flaw in your gameplay is something you have to recognize for yourself in order to get past that and defeat players that give you a problem. Might not even be your namelock, you might be namelocking fine but are shaky on how to follow up chains and make sure once you start dealing damage to the sorc she dies right there.
Trust me Ive dueled a lot of very defensive players, many of the same bunch of players that you know to be very defensive, Im no stranger to players boxing. But an fb sorc vs wwsin or hybrid, sorry I cant say I ever had a problem with that matchup 1v1.

The only exception is the dclaw/whirl immune mdr/idr builds that can not be broken at 1 hp, in those cases you need a hybrid for elemental damage to deal that last bit of damage. Any fb sorc that can be taken down at 1hp (or close to 1hp) should be taken down by a wwsin doesn't matter if they rep or not, if they aren't immune they will get put to 1 hp in a single series of attacks and should not be allowed to escape. hybrids counter those sorcs nicely but do have a somewhat harder time chasing than a ghost would because they lack maxed mindblast but still.. you shouldn't be losing this matchup consistently.



phew essay lol. this is what happens when I go on a night without sleep and just start typing a reply.

tl;dr version:
l2p sosa ezcaeks
play smart and think on how to approach a boxing sorc, dont get hit, look for that opening
try to kill the sorc in a single stomp or short series of stomps, if the sorc makes a clean escape recollect yourself rather than chasing reckless
don't be overaggressive and tele into fb, dont chase recklessly if the sorc escapes, she is looking for you to do that
you have every tool in the world for this matchup

This post was edited by Ziecheik on Jul 27 2009 08:26am

jesus christ that is a long message max. lol i almost hesitated to read it >.<

but no i did not call u out in a duel against your ghost. all i was saying was try to catch me when im runnin around non stop. (or give me the build/gear and i'll try to play like a phyzer, no guarantees tho, my forte isnt sorcs)

and yea, perhaps i did get annoyed and started chasing. it just seemed that everytime i took him to 1 hp, he would run away for 15 mins and heal his hp back to 100% (thats when i chase to get him down when he has 1 hp). and with my luck, i always end up running into 1-2 fireballs here and there along the way. since sins on d2pk arent allowed a dwarf. 5-6 fbs will kill you and i heal slower than he does so i figured, if i dont catch him NOW, in the end he'll keep this up and i'll run out of mana and lose.

i dunno. i can get him low ez. i just cant get the kill because all he does is run nonstop away from me @105fcr once i've taken him lower than 1/3.

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Jul 27 2009 08:44am

Ya thats what happens when I just start typing and don't think or am tired.
It's like I got d2 strat diarrhea or something. My shit is golden.

And ya don't overextend yourself, I think being patient and trying to get a kill in a single stomp (or very short time period after the stomp, really taking advantage of a stomp when you get an opening) is the way to go. If he slips out oh well, don't panic, just regroup, take a deep breath, and look for that initial opening again. If he is spending 15 min teleporting away take a few to try to read him or tele by him without going directly at him, thats how you get hit by fb sorcs, by taking the shortest path possible and making predictable teleports. Trying to constantly stomp without actually having a chainlock established makes it easy for the sorc player to avoid you.
Also, have you ever had problems against anyone other than phyzer? I know players can still box and still rep and still do all those tactics, but the difference in character stats is huge. I mean like.. if you tossed on 14mb/255%ed/+ow% sc or something, is that representative of wwsin vs sorc? no of course not, and neither is a 7skill/huge mana rep%/life rep/mdr/idr/whatever else he had on the charm. Just an illegal char.

This post was edited by Ziecheik on Jul 27 2009 09:07am

nope. i beat all other sorcs (ofc not the physical immune one) on my ghost. but i figured. if i lost to phyzer, there can always be others like him right? as for the charm, yea i guess so.

i didnt know it would make THAT much of a difference though. i mean sure he tanks a bit more, but the main thing was that i couldnt catch him cuz as soon as he saw my dot on the screen he would run his ass to the other side of moor so he can finish repping (when he plays regular defensive i can kill him fine, but when he REALLY wants to win, he does that 30+ run away style and i cant do nothing) - sooner or later i get hit and worn down and then lose.

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Jul 27 2009 09:15am

Max/10

well, there was a period of phyzer clones right before he got banned correct? how well did those clones compare without the illegal charm? not too well from what I hear.
there are more defensive players than him as well, and they can get taken down as well.

gotta keep up your concentration and not get discouraged if he keeps running away. goes for playing against any boxing player.
even if he reps back to full you can get another opening and attempt again to drop him in one hit. just look for that opening, try to cut him off, watch for when your shadow casts mb to try to make the most out of your attempts to catch him on your screen, etc. don't lose concentration. keep your cool throughout the whole duel. wwsins can take down sorcs on one good stomp even if they have close to no hp left.

running out of mana might be a problem if you are constantly teleporting at the sorc, so try to approach differently. some extra 7015s might be a good idea. Personally Ive never had it so I ran out of mana before I was able to end the duel with a sorc 1v1 though.

This post was edited by Ziecheik on Jul 27 2009 09:28am

like i said above. i took down all the phyzer clones and all the other defensive sorcs no problem. its just when its an immune or the real hacked phyzer sorc that i had trouble with. (altho technically i think, what if they played the match out perfectly and used just as much rep and stuff as the phyzer right? shouldnt that be almost as hard?)

as for the 1570s, i did use them. infact i used 10x of them lol. but as you said before. i prob shouldnt need to worry, after all it was a hacked sorc. no legit one would ever be that tough

Since i cant afford what you posted

i do have chaos and fury claw, but my ar is sorta low...

is 5.8k ar decent on a hyrbid sin?