~50% chance dml dmg shadows
~62%gface or gores
~74% gface + gores

the dmg lose might affect it, havn't looked into that specifically though.
/e i think, iddnt dbl check it

This post was edited by Skibum on Jul 29 2011 11:43am

its going to be:

GFace + Shadow Dancers (15x 32020s + 4x Shadows)
35% CB
52% DS
300+ AR
60+ Life (after bo)
18 Physical Damage (Raw - Not what's on screen)
More Kick Damage
More Defense
48% FHR BP

Gface + Gores Riders (9x 32020s + 6x Shadows)
50% CB
67% DS
10% OW
27% FHR BP

The 2 extra shadow gcs in gores setup dont add anything more than what shadow dancers already provide... you basically are MAKING UP for the 2 shadow skills lost from not using dancers.

Conclusion:
Without gface, the boosts from gores is really nice. However, if you already use Gface, the %'s already pretty good. If you using gores as well, you start see diminishing returns

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Jul 29 2011 12:08pm

Dropped Jah'ed shako.Realised ~300 hp is worth dropping for 20 fcr and 20 frw from circlet.
I was thinking about using Gulli face with 40 ed jewel since i dont need dr.

I used to use jah shako in my VERY first ghost v ghost setup... back then i used storm hide and treks too (lol)

then i switched to a 2sin/20fcr/30frw/60life/83mana/2soc circlet (jah/jah) + highlords + dancers

then i switched to a 2sin/20fcr/vis/39life/2soc circlet (jah/ber) + highlords + dancers

then i switched to a 2sin/20fcr/30frw/60life/83mana/2soc circlet (jah/ber) + highlords + dancers

then i switched to a 2sin/20fcr/30frw/60life/83mana/2soc circlet (40-15/ber) + highlords + dancers

then i switched to a gface (ber) + highlords + dancers

i tried 2sin/20fcr/30frw/60life/82mana/2soc circlet (40-15/ber) + highlords + gores but didnt like it....

so i went back to gface (ber) + highlords + dancers....

i suggest you skip all those tests and just use what i use in the end lol

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Jul 29 2011 12:25pm

where are you getting your psn res?

you dont have hero editor

20/11 scs

use as many as you can until you reach 75% psn res in hell (then add -30 to that to cover for anya glitch, total to 105% poison res)

the rest of the inventory that are filled up with 20/11 pr scs, should be filled with 32020s for more damage and ar.

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Jul 29 2011 12:39pm

actually you get more defense with gores, even non upped ones have a bit more defence than dancers and upped ones have 1/3 more
kick damage is irrelevant - you don't kick
you could get 48 fhr with gores too if you want that, its more life lost then though
its 18 max, so 9 average

you didn't include critical strike to the double damage %. its what, 20% or so? then you have 61% and 73% double damage chance. gore setup has ~7.5% higher average damage if damage would be the same otherwise (its not, but lets just assume it is)

however, that 9 average physical damage adds about 5.5% damage to your fools claw. how much average damage does gchaos have? but well the extra damage % will be lower, im guessing something between 2-4%.

so at this point gores has a bit higher average damage, but ow and cb haven't been factored in yet

good approximation for average cb damage per hit through the duel is (max life/2)*(1/10)*(1-dr%)*cb%
if opponent has 4.8k life and 50 dr: average hit that procs cb is 120. so with gores extra damage per hit is on average 60 while with dancers its 42. so 18 pvp damage more per hit from cb with gores. i cba calculate the percentage value of total damage for that but it's probably somewhere around 3-6% more damage with gores from cb. not so much but its something at least. I think its probably somewhere between 5% and 15% (it could probably jump to 20% if you play hit n run and let ow run for its full duration before procing it again) extra damage overall
OW is kinda difficult to calculate properly but if you assume that ow has time to do the full duration each time it procs and does 500 damage then its average 50 pvp damage more per hit from ow, which is like 8-15% extra damage or so. however if you trade hits and hit multiple times in row then the effect of extra ow becomes pretty minimal

but yea well i guess its pretty clear that gores do have a pretty fair bit more damage even when i can't give exact numbers without calculating everything through and through
i don't know if its enough more to overcome the slightly lower ar and life. the extra defence somewhat makes up for the lost ar though

I really think you should try both setups ingame and see which works the best. To me on paper that gore setup does kinda look better and would allow you to use gores vs everyone else as well, which i don't think that dancer guilli setup lets you do, or does it?




I want to comment a bit on this. While you do get some dimishing returns, the difference between guilli and no guilli doesn't make a huge difference to how much gores boost damage. You see some dimishing returns right from the start but going from hl+critical strike to hl+guilli+critical strike is not that much bigger jump than adding gores to the mix as well. For CB it is a bit bigger difference though

This post was edited by tudey on Jul 29 2011 12:49pm

you forgot to factor in the dmg boast you have from shadows vs the dbl dmg percent from gores, and hit rate% for each claw given the loss of ar. if we want to go completely mathematical.
ghosts don't have very high physical dmg as is, so a higher base dmg modified by a lower chance of doing dbl dmg will average out to higher dmg than a lower dmg with a little more ds. for my sin, they're practically = mathematically.
/e i never got around to checking gore + guili its on my things to look into though

This post was edited by Skibum on Jul 29 2011 12:52pm

good catch on the defense haha, i figured shadows = more defense since its a higher "class" boot.

as for the damage, yea obviously gores will do more damage, but not that much more unless u trade hits in a line (which doesnt happen often in sin v sin).

i think the loss in life is about... 100 or so.

but what i really like about dancers is the fhr. which in ghost v ghost is often a battle of "timing" and "precise stomps." unlike 65fcr/27fhr builds, the 42 build is slower when your opponent is spamming mindblast non stop. the 48fhr is just enough hto allow you to namelock + stomp on him and ww as hes in the middle of performing mb spam. 27fhr isnt enough to get out of that kind of lock unless you use 65fcr (which we already determined is weaker) and u would be forced to endure all of the damage until you ww to safety. that is a major perk as it allows you to get "free hits".

but yea... i havent tested the build gface + gores myself yet.... however 2 of my friends (#2 and #3 on ghost v ghost ladder) have both tested it. in the end, i didnt notice that much of a difference... in fact, when they used 48fhr, i had to be more on "guard" to avoid getting stomp'd while im spamming mb on them.




my ghost gets like 2600ish physical and 1400ish poison damage... the other numbers come from random elemental/magic damage

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Jul 29 2011 12:59pm