Hmm, this guide does seem a bit illogical to me, is the aim of the guide to find the fastest way to kill the ubers? If so, why do you propose using salvation vs meph, if we're really aiming for speed we could put a few res charms in our inven and easily be able to use fanat.

Now obviously someone will probably give me a reply something along the lines of " ZOMG, RESIZT CH4RMS, expeennsive " etc!

Well, before anyone writes that, the best thing to say is, if the cost of gear is a factor, this guide is redundant, as ubers can easily be done with a black setup which is alot cheaper than using grief as you seem to suggest.

Edit: " Considering the low cost of Treachery ('ShaelThulLem'), it makes no sense to use Fade as an argument for Last Wish ('JahMalJahSurJahBer'). Trigger Fade before engaging in combat, as the chance is too risky to rely on during the fight. "

I also liked how you slipped that in... "Trigger Fate before engaging in combat" wtf? if this guide is about speed, then we must add the time it takes to trigger fade on a non lw setup surely? Also the thing about it being " too risky" to rely on is nonsense imo, even if it doesnt precast, life tap will surely keep you alive ( esp using a lw setup given the higher ctc tap ).

You make it sound like stepping into ubers is the equivelent of walking into the blood moor with an ama in a bm duel game full of mb necs, but a fairer pvp analogy is its like " using a gmod hammer with 16 juvs" ( prob as juvs are " GM in trist ).

Finally, If you insist on using salvation though against meph, why not use coh? The boost from fanat ( if you are allowed to use fanat while wearing coh ) would surely outweigh the ed on forti, no?

This post was edited by BobLikesCheese on Nov 20 2010 02:11pm

No, the purpose is to compare the weapons listed at the beginning by proposing equipment that greatly increases efficiency while retaining safety.

When I wrote this guide, there was an ongoing debate about whether Grief could possibly outperform LW, with some silly theorycrafting arguments in its wake.
I will not claim this guide is the reason many people have changed their minds, but I believe it has made some of you think twice.


I do not recall having presented Salvation as an absolute necessity, but it does make the going easier not having to worry quite as much about your resistances.
Granted, when LT kicks in, you can manage with far less than maximum res, but you probably won't be laughing if you die to low res and/or because the 5% crit rolled against you first.

Safety.


They are dirt cheap provided you aren't too picky about perfect res or an additional suffix. Use whatever your budget allows (though I wouldn't overdo it on a character whose sole purpose is to crush the Ubers).


Grimborn's Poorman guide @ the Amazon Basin uses ''garbage'' to defeat the Ubers. A fantastic write-up and still jaw-dropping: he did it alone, wearing junk, on Hardcore.
I see no reason to replicate his efforts.


Fade is a safety option.

The table data make no reference to the time required besides smiting down each of the Ubers.
Players have different preferences on moving around, prebuffing, luring Mephisto away from his brothers etc. Each to his own - not something this guide focuses on.

Those who wish to prebuff Fade can do so by standing in the fire at the hung corpse NE of the red portal when entering Tristram. You will get hit often, most notably because you cannot block burning ground fire.


Well, Ubers are BM (3>1), so why not?


Look at the Damage Resist of the Three; Mephisto is by far the quickest to fall.

What about his two brothers?

This post was edited by Eywa on Nov 20 2010 04:07pm

So basically, your seeing who can complete ubers on a probably inferior setup - I just think its wierd to show that grief is winner when its "possible" another weapon(Astreon's) could be quicker if fanat was used with it. As if you multiply Astereons time ( for meph ) by 6/7 it does certaintly make things very even, although you'd guess fanat would advantage grief more due to the higher base damage.



Maybe this is down to me having not read your guide well enough, but you only seem to have computed outcomes for mephisto using salvation - seems like the definition of a neccesity to me! Also, seriously safety is not that much of an issue with ubers, if your that worried bring some juvs along for the ride, although I swear I've never needed them( and i dont think I'm the only one.. )


I agree



Beating the ubers with bad eq is not really an accomplishment imo, altho i may stand corrected if you research what you meant by "junk" (or you define it). Also, I wasn't saying you should try, I was merely stating my counter argument in advance, - that eq cost shouldnt be the major consideration in a guide showing the speed to kill ubers, so res scs should be shown in your gear.



This makes very little sense.. according to your calculations, there's a 7.2s difference between the best and worse weapons in time taken to kill ubers i believe. If you take that amount of time just to prebuff fade, then it must be a factor - different playstyles cannot be a factor as its basicaly an "unbounded variable ", but the amount of time to prebuff fade should be a constant using the method you described ( tbh i thought everyone new about the fire trick by now ).



Quality not quantity, my friend



If your not counting the time to prebuff fade, how about the use of something called an inventory as it takes a split second to swap a coh with a fort. And in anycase its missing the point, you really dont need to use salvation no matter the setup you use espcially with last wish a 15% CtC and 25/6 attacks/sec iit'll cast pretty quick. I've never died to ubers, and I've never used salv, that isnt great statistical evidence, but nonetheless I dont really see salvation being neccesary whatsoever. Im not really to to criticise your guide, njust give my feedback, although it is very in depth, I feel an option with fanat on meph would make it relevent.

This post was edited by BobLikesCheese on Nov 20 2010 05:12pm

I think it's quite obvious from the calculations that dropping the safety precautions and surviving Mephisto with Fanaticism would make Astreon's and Grief even better.


It's a choice on my part, based on the equipment listed. Fade is optional and without a lot of resistance charms, some players are going to need Salvation to survive Mephisto.
Recalculating with Fanaticism instead of Salvation would merely increase kill speed and make Astreon's/Grief outshine the rest.


Google: ''The Amazon Basin Soloing Uber Tristram'' (should be in Technical Discussion #63770).

The equipment used therein is well below what most people here would characterise as ''junk''.


IF you need to (or decide to) proc Fade before taking on the Ubers, it should be done with Treachery and not LW.
IF the amount of time spent in UT is essential and you know you will survive without Fade, then by all means don't wait for it to proc.

Bear in mind, there are still players who have barely ventured into UT. The optional content is for those who may not be as experienced and thus need a few tips which might seem redundant to others.


I figured people would decide on the use of inventory space, based on equipment.

14.5%, just to nitpick.

This post was edited by Eywa on Nov 20 2010 07:42pm

Up

Up

Up

You him more than you me?
Or you him more than I him?

In either case it's impossible

This post was edited by MateDeVita on Nov 28 2010 07:40am

i liek

tl;dr
but niec guild m9te