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Feb 6 2015 08:17am
I always thought that slowed ww were more deadly than normal ww xD But that's probably just an impression.
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Feb 6 2015 08:20am
Quote (Breee @ Feb 6 2015 02:13pm)
it's for slowing your enemy. it doesn't only reduce FRW amount, freeze also reduces the attackspeed as far as I know. someone might correct my if I'm wrong please.
I don't know how much the reduce is, that's why I can't tell you exact things right now. but I'll try to find it out.


well yea, freeze slows the enemys frw/attack speed ( not that he doesnt hit ww ias bp imo) and as well if he uses botd, he might have ias stack as 34 ias is needed to ww bp.

also, if the attack speed is slower, doesnt it mean that u hit enemy more times? i saw a guide somewhere that : the more frw, the more is ww faster. ...and u dont want to "fly" through the opponent, u need as much hits as possible during u re wwing him.

..so imo u might need somehow slower the ww in this case, and not to give it to the enemy by freezing him urself .as well, the freeze stands for around 1,xxx second, thats not as high benefit as 3max dmg and 20ar

im just theorycrafting ...

Quote (Lensherr @ Feb 6 2015 02:17pm)
I always thought that slowed ww were more deadly than normal ww xD But that's probably just an impression.


ye thats what im talking about, saw it somewhere in guide some time ago

This post was edited by trivis on Feb 6 2015 08:24am
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Feb 6 2015 11:22am
Quote (Breee @ 6 Feb 2015 16:13)
it's for slowing your enemy. it doesn't only reduce FRW amount, freeze also reduces the attackspeed as far as I know. someone might correct me if I'm wrong please.
I don't know how much the reduce is, that's why I can't tell you exact things right now. but I'll try to find it out.
vs Botd it might be useless to reduce the attackspeed tho, as botd is raw 26 ias over the last ww BP with it's 60 ias


wrong, freeze does not affect the attack speed of ww. it does, however, slow the speed at which the barb moves during ww.
one might consider being frozen is actually useful for bvb.
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Feb 6 2015 11:37am
Quote (harabec @ 6 Feb 2015 18:22)
wrong, freeze does not affect the attack speed of ww. it does, however, slow the speed at which the barb moves during ww.
one might consider being frozen is actually useful for bvb.


kk, thx alot, that's what I wanted to know.

I don't feel it useful to be frozen at all.
I can't stand the loss of my mobility (especially vs people that use a Raven this is rly annoying).
the usual 10-20 cold sc doesn't last as long.

in addition, I always felt it much harder vs people that got CBF, due a raven, TO belt or w/e.
just my impression tho. can't prove that anyway.

In Classic it is Selfown to use Colddmg usually^^
especially in BH vs Exec (range 1 vs 3) .. the exec will be much longer in range to hit you.

but in LoD I felt my barb weaker without it, so I still use it until today.

This post was edited by Breee on Feb 6 2015 11:38am
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Feb 6 2015 12:21pm
thx all ppl that conversed about the freeze/cbf till now, i ve heard all i needed to know ^_^
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Feb 13 2015 04:18am
*** Coming Updates ***

- Reforge Minimum Stats to: (6400-500+ life, 20+ k ar, ~22k+ def, ~3 k avg dmg, lvl 95+)
- Adding More Charms you can use
- Correct mistypes in CHARMS
- More Details about the different armors

- Stats of Combinations (Armors + Weapons + helmets + rings)
> I'll post this in here or make an additional topic, this Guidepicture is getting Scary Big regarded to the MB. gonna try to reduce it a bit :)
>> currently working on: http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150209/vkinh4k3.jpg (this is not done yet, there is a description that has to be added)
>> this is just the beginning, i will make more setups for more different charms, also visios with life, different socs, different rare armors.
>> if I got all I need I will sort out crap and keep the most useful things for every piece of item.
>> So in summary I can tell what the best builds are for different budgets^^

- Update the Price list
-Item specific notes:
>Eth templars might: perf = 2883 def
- add Eth Upped Guardian Angel (max def: ~2385)
- add Eth Upped Duriels Shell (max def: ~2376 @ lvl 99)
- add Builds with different priceranges probably


Any suggestion or help is very welcome.
the main changes will happen in the end of march I think, then I got more time again


This post was edited by Breee on Feb 13 2015 04:25am
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Feb 16 2015 09:18pm
I used to play melee, zeal/barbs, till not much long a go, 3-4 years maybe. Ill give my two cents, cos this game is old, and a lot of people has been doing this for years.

at first i changed my builds based on my feelings of what was working and what was not

then i got deeper into the maths of d2, basically ctc% and average damages. The whole thing is based on the dimishing returns of ctc%, that is how u get adv. Then i realised i could get an edge by creating two setups,1 vs high defense another vs low defense. In order to exploit the ctc% dminishing returns and get 5-10% more theorical average damages here and there. Average dmg based on ctc% vs diferent defense ranges. I did this only for zeal vs zeal as i didnt play bvb by then anymore. The result is i was wining much more based on '''''theory crafted''''' setups.

And the thing is maths rule this game, and feelings dont mean anything. The only way to check the effectiveness of some setup trhough tests is by doing it 1000+times, take down the results and check what's best over a lot of samples. But since no one is gonna ever do that, the next best thing is to trust the maths.

Ofc bvb is more complex than zeal vs zeal/conc/fury, as movements are weapon range are involved. But in the end 10% more chance to hit is 10% more dmg over time, whatever one's perception is from a handful of duels.

Same applies for max/min/average dmg.

Average dmg is what counts no matter what, if u get +50max dmg it'll add the same dmg over time as +50min dmg, and a 1-500 dmg weapon is gonna deal same dmg over time as a 250-251 dmg weapon. (In melee duels, not in caster duels as fhr% animations are involved). I still remember when people use to discuss about cruel cryptic swords vs grizz scepter for 4fpa wolves in 1.09 :)

Also like harabec said, if you wanna play the range game, a +1range weapon can totally make a -1range weapon perform like shit, but ofc this requires the bigger range user to know how to do it and to mean it, I did tests on this in the days. I dno if you play guys play very defensive though.

This post was edited by reyrol on Feb 16 2015 09:21pm
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Feb 17 2015 01:33pm
Quote (reyrol @ 17 Feb 2015 05:18)
I used to play melee, zeal/barbs, till not much long a go, 3-4 years maybe. Ill give my two cents, cos this game is old, and a lot of people has been doing this for years.

at first i changed my builds based on my feelings of what was working and what was not

then i got deeper into the maths of d2, basically ctc% and average damages. The whole thing is based on the dimishing returns of ctc%, that is how u get adv. Then i realised i could get an edge by creating two setups,1 vs high defense another vs low defense. In order to exploit the ctc% dminishing returns and get 5-10% more theorical average damages here and there. Average dmg based on ctc% vs diferent defense ranges. I did this only for zeal vs zeal as i didnt play bvb by then anymore. The result is i was wining much more based on '''''theory crafted''''' setups.

And the thing is maths rule this game, and feelings dont mean anything. The only way to check the effectiveness of some setup trhough tests is by doing it 1000+times, take down the results and check what's best over a lot of samples. But since no one is gonna ever do that, the next best thing is to trust the maths.

Ofc bvb is more complex than zeal vs zeal/conc/fury, as movements are weapon range are involved. But in the end 10% more chance to hit is 10% more dmg over time, whatever one's perception is from a handful of duels.

Same applies for max/min/average dmg.

Average dmg is what counts no matter what, if u get +50max dmg it'll add the same dmg over time as +50min dmg, and a 1-500 dmg weapon is gonna deal same dmg over time as a 250-251 dmg weapon. (In melee duels, not in caster duels as fhr% animations are involved). I still remember when people use to discuss about cruel cryptic swords vs grizz scepter for 4fpa wolves in 1.09 :)

Also like harabec said, if you wanna play the range game, a +1range weapon can totally make a -1range weapon perform like shit, but ofc this requires the bigger range user to know how to do it and to mean it, I did tests on this in the days. I dno if you play guys play very defensive though.


In aow they play like full retard mode usually, with some subtility when it's needed, in FFA those who plays forty play kinda like in AoW, but those who use toothrow are kinda hit & run for 8 seconds.
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Posts: 21,861
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Feb 17 2015 03:35pm
Quote (reyrol @ 17 Feb 2015 04:18)
I used to play melee, zeal/barbs, till not much long a go, 3-4 years maybe. Ill give my two cents, cos this game is old, and a lot of people has been doing this for years.

at first i changed my builds based on my feelings of what was working and what was not

then i got deeper into the maths of d2, basically ctc% and average damages. The whole thing is based on the dimishing returns of ctc%, that is how u get adv. Then i realised i could get an edge by creating two setups,1 vs high defense another vs low defense. In order to exploit the ctc% dminishing returns and get 5-10% more theorical average damages here and there. Average dmg based on ctc% vs diferent defense ranges. I did this only for zeal vs zeal as i didnt play bvb by then anymore. The result is i was wining much more based on '''''theory crafted''''' setups.

And the thing is maths rule this game, and feelings dont mean anything. The only way to check the effectiveness of some setup trhough tests is by doing it 1000+times, take down the results and check what's best over a lot of samples. But since no one is gonna ever do that, the next best thing is to trust the maths.

Ofc bvb is more complex than zeal vs zeal/conc/fury, as movements are weapon range are involved. But in the end 10% more chance to hit is 10% more dmg over time, whatever one's perception is from a handful of duels.

Same applies for max/min/average dmg.

Average dmg is what counts no matter what, if u get +50max dmg it'll add the same dmg over time as +50min dmg, and a 1-500 dmg weapon is gonna deal same dmg over time as a 250-251 dmg weapon. (In melee duels, not in caster duels as fhr% animations are involved). I still remember when people use to discuss about cruel cryptic swords vs grizz scepter for 4fpa wolves in 1.09 :)

Also like harabec said, if you wanna play the range game, a +1range weapon can totally make a -1range weapon perform like shit, but ofc this requires the bigger range user to know how to do it and to mean it, I did tests on this in the days. I dno if you play guys play very defensive though.


yep, what you say is for sure right regarded to average calculations^^
but I think you got my point when I said I prefer more min dmg over max dmg ^^
But I'm a guy that always will regard the worst possible case that happens in a duel

I think you can't calc the weapon range into "average", I'm like the only one who uses a range 2 wep for example (one more barb does) xD
99% of the BvB's will use a range 3 wep.
in AoW that's Botd.
In FFA everyone will use a Grief anyway
also the difference between range 3 & 2 in case of (CB/BA/BB vs LM) .. is so low.
not like 3 vs 1 in classic for example. a range 3 Exec truly can outplay a range 1 BH
a Range 3 BA can't outplay a Range 2 LM that easy, afer what I experienced^^

Quote (Lensherr @ 17 Feb 2015 20:33)
In aow they play like full retard mode usually, with some subtility when it's needed, in FFA those who plays forty play kinda like in AoW, but those who use toothrow are kinda hit & run for 8 seconds.


well it's bvb, Dodge & counterattacks usually.
there are some people that play more agressive and risk to get hits.
other people keep to play def & w8 for situations to hit.
especially FRW builds will use the speed to avoid their enemies
that's 2 min duels vs 5-8 min duels ^^

This post was edited by Breee on Feb 17 2015 03:37pm
Member
Posts: 21,861
Joined: Dec 13 2010
Gold: 0.91
Feb 25 2015 03:42pm
Quote (Breee @ 13 Feb 2015 11:18)
*** Coming Updates ***

- Reforge Minimum Stats to: (6400-500+ life, 20+ k ar, ~22k+ def, ~3 k avg dmg, lvl 95+)
- Adding More Charms you can use
- Correct mistypes in CHARMS
- More Details about the different armors

- Stats of Combinations (Armors + Weapons + helmets + rings)
> I'll post this in here or make an additional topic, this Guidepicture is getting Scary Big regarded to the MB. gonna try to reduce it a bit :)
>> currently working on: http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150209/vkinh4k3.jpg (this is not done yet, there is a description that has to be added)
>> this is just the beginning, i will make more setups for more different charms, also visios with life, different socs, different rare armors.
>> if I got all I need I will sort out crap and keep the most useful things for every piece of item.
>> So in summary I can tell what the best builds are for different budgets^^

- Update the Price list
-Item specific notes:
>Eth templars might: perf = 2883 def
- add Eth Upped Guardian Angel (max def: ~2385)
- add Eth Upped Duriels Shell (max def: ~2376 @ lvl 99)
- add Builds with different priceranges probably


Any suggestion or help is very welcome.
the main changes will happen in the end of march I think, then I got more time again


lmk if there is more to add/change
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