thx for that guide, its been a long time since i didnt play frenzy (maybe 8 years... the old versions),
and after reading your guide, i thought it was time to make a new frenzy.

i've been thinking about it for some days now, wanted to make a 100% pvm funny frenz-barb.

he will have highlords/gores/guillaumes/forty/laying/raven/leech ring

no problem so far ...

but for the weapons, i want to reach max speed (obviously) wich is 10 frames / weapon.

i've read carefully the section you talk about NormalWSM and Glitched... not read the entire 20pages of posts, maybe ths have been discussed already.

but here's the problem :

i want to use Grief Zweihander : +2 range adder (>PB), long sword style (>BA) and -10 base weapon ias (>CB).

i can put 15ias jewel in guillaumes and get 55%ias from extra-weapon.

according to my tests (solo) i can reach max speed attack with 2 x Grief Zweihander, regardless of ias bonus (30-40%).
but !!!
when i use :
primary weapon (gloves) 40 ias Zweihander
second weapon (boots) 0 ias Zweihander
my attack speed is slower than with 2 x 40ias Zweihander.

and according to you (and titanseal calculator) , the bonus of ias of the second weapon doesnt matter... it does !!

i dont know if this has something to do with the Glitched-thing, but it seems that average weapon ias (including base + bonus) is used to set your final attack speed.

maybe i'll do more tests later, but i'd like to know the minimum +ias on grief to be ok without 15ias guillaume's :
40ed jewel or Um costs much less than 15/40 or 15/15 !!

someone got an answer ?

This post was edited by feanur on Aug 20 2010 10:37am

ok i found the answer from titanseal in your topic, great !

so i'll have :

37+ias Grief Colossus Sword
30ias Grief Zweihander
55 Off-ias

and glitched to get 5fpa

Bump For the good frenzy guide, the "ultimate" one is on page one, someone has to save those people from a sub par character. TO THE TOP!

This guide is full of knowledge and the strategy is well thought out. I used your recommended weapon combination of Grief PB + eDeath CS to save myself the number crunching and I like the results. I completely agree that maxed BO is not required on the frenzy barb. I feel it goes against the theme of the shieldless build. You've already traded your shield for an extra sword, so let's push our damage to the limit! I modeled my barb after your "traditional frenzy" build, however there are a few points I disagree with:

> Even if you do not max BO, 2k life is NOT sufficient for a shieldless melee build with little DR and incomplete resist. My current build has 2.8k life and near maxed resist, and I find the unique knights and venom lords in chaos challenging. Howl does not scare them, and facing them all at once will get you killed.

> A higher hit rate adds to your power. For such an AR-deficient build, skills should be maxed in the following order: Frenzy (+5% ED / +7% AR / +IAS), Mastery (+5% ED/ +7% AR / +Crit), Double Swing (+8% ED), Taunt (+8% ED), rest BO

> If you have the cash, ditch the Reaper's Toll for an ethereal Pride (provides +345% ED versus Decrep's +50%). Put a Ral'd Andys on merc for another +20% ED from his Might aura.

> Get Berserk for killing PI. It might cost 3 skill points but also frees up your switch, allowing you to use 2x +3 WC javs. The +6 to your warcries is a better net gain and helps barbs with 1 point BO. Low BO is annoying because of its low timer and using a switch will increase its length significantly.

> Get Increased Speed. One point adds the equivalent of 11x frw scs and makes getting around that much easier.

To make your build a hybrid thrower, place 1 point in throwing mastery. Double Swing also synergizes with Double Throw, and Frenzy temporarily increases your throw rate. For weapon, Gimmershred works well against PI due to its 1.4k trielemental damage. The problem with gimmer is that it doesn't replenish. Also, unless you spend points in throwing skills, Frenzy is a stronger attack. This is why I simply recommend using Berserk + BO stix. I've listed my build and current stats below for those interested:

379/40 Grief PB
303 eDeath CS
Guillaume's Face, +15% Res / +15 Max Socket
Fortitude AP
String of Ears
20/220+ Raven (when choosing rings remember that 1 Dex = 5 AR)
20/220+ Raven
Highlord Amulet
Gores
Laying of Hands
4x 5 fhr sc with +Resist / +AR mods (hit 48% FHR BP with Guillaume)
Half Inventory of 50+ AR LC & 100+ AR GC
Anni
1.12 BTorch (1.11-12 Torches have a 25% CTC Firestorm versus 1.13's 5% ... more fireworks!)
2x +3 BO Javs (Can use 2x low hoto instead. Warning: dual CTA won't work)

Hotkeys: F1 = Leap, F2 = Howl (Important!!), F3 = BC, F4 = BO, F5 = Shout

I don't have a merc yet. Despite this, my character clears chaos nicely. Initially, I had trouble facing strong mobs. After hotkeying Howl, facing these mobs became MUCH safer. This skill works perfectly with Frenzy... try it and you'll see why! Here are my character's stats after BO, without merc buffs. The damage/AR listed is for the initial swing before Frenzy starts up.

to Recharge :

do you use BattleCry when facing strong mobs / bosses ? 1 hard point in it will provide ~ -64%def / -32%damages
means ~ 95%hit and safer for you. Also using a leech ring over your second Raven may help a lot.
i must say i dont pot often, actually never unless 0%leech (skeletons, diablo...).

about Berserk vs PI : maybe it works great... but as you said this char is shieldless and doesnt have 6/7K life, so why do you suggest using 0def skill
to free switch, in order to get an extra +6BO ? i dont understand, ~ 120 more life for a sacrifice of your def ?
i got 12K def (with chilling armor on), using Forty in Sacred armor. this is only 25/30% chance to be hit vs any Hell monster (currently lvl90).
120more life is nothing compared to that.
... and Berserk requires 3skills, that you could put into BO !
... and Berserk means no leech !

and i believe Berserk will be much slower than frenzy when it comes to huge packs of PI (not only a single boss).

i use Lacerator+Lawbringer in switch, using frenzy vs PI.
if undead (as many PI are) i keep on switch with sanctuary providing fast killing speed.
if not, i switch back to regular weapons once decrep or amp' is cast.

regards

Never thought of using Battle Cry, that's a great idea. It'll definitely let me cut down on some AR.
Just looked up the Sanctuary aura as well. I had no idea it did that, I'll have to consider using it !!
Lawbringer PB + Grief PB seems to be a popular combination and I think it'd work well for undead/PI switch

the +%dtu (damage to undead) from the sanctuary aura, does not work. however, sanctuary will nullify all positive physical resistance for all attacks originating from the character who has the aura active. personally, I use azurewrath, but that is lvlreq85, lawbringer does a great job in the mean time.

I actually just finished playing through the game with a self-found only barb this ladder (could have done it much sooner but d2 isn't the only think I do all day every day or even commit to playing regularly). take note that this was the third character I made this ladder, so items were not just self-found from him but rather other characters I made.

he used
crafted blood helm (socketed with ias jewel)
duress wirefleece
gore riders
2x rare ring with life leach and resists
crafted blood gloves with dual leach
rare belt with resists
rare ammy with leach
lawbringer pb
voice of reason pb

might merc
reapers toll
treaachery
blackhorns


it took some time, but was fairly easy. Since I didn't have high clvl or good eq (for high damage, ar, res, etc), I used a max battle orders and warcry build and stated a decent amount into vitality (low damage means leach doesn't do much). most of the damage done was from CB (9 gloves + 15 boots + 15 armor = 39%). the ias was a mild issue, but decrepify and warcry made the mobs unable to do much offensively and CB do more damage


it should be obvious that frenzy is a robust build that can beat it's way through hell with whatever eq you have the patience for. the first char I beat d2 with (back in 1.00) was a barb, with little more than a ripsaw (which I spent a while gambling for, considering this was single player), the barbs talent tree, and a lot of perseverance, beat the game with primarily open wounds damage. if uniques can get the job done, this should say that with even the most humble original runewords (malice) it is possible to complete the game with a barb.

I agree. Bone necromancer is one of my favorites to run untwinked thru HC. But it can also be fun to just bulldoze through monsters. That was the kind of reckless playstyle I was hoping for with a frenzy barb.

frenzy barbs are designed for that ! with enough leech + decent def, you shouldnt have any problem.

also lvl 79 seems a bit low to tank any places in hell :
ar/def chance-to-hit calculation also use both attacker/defender levels, and lvl79 vs lvl99 hell baal is not at your advantage !

and that is easily achieved with some slightly more expensive/harder to get equipment. i would suggest reading the guide and perusing some of the comments and doing some damage calculations and in game testing to achieve the best results for what you specifically have in mind for your barb, in that order. i enjoy bulldozing also and do so with my barb. equipment, playstyle, skills setup, how many players and what areas you are playing in, all dictate how much bulldozing you will do, the setups I have in this guide and subsequent posts are what i have found to work well for me. i will be reposting this guide when i have figured out what I want it to be more exactly.