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Jan 13 2010 06:54pm
Quote (fkJSP @ 14 Jan 2010 01:50)
you can't get 50%dr for pvp, 30 is cap i believe. i had a 65fcr setup with coa and 102fcr with griffon, ur right im not maxed DR during 102fcr, however, i don't use that setup vs. melee builds anyway.

all of my trap synergies were maxed with a 60% claw block and (to be honest i can't remember the fade lvl, but it was more than enough with +skills), yes more block is better, but getting 1% block per skill is just not.

my point goes back to what i stated earlier: why lose 5-6k dmg to gain a slight edge vs. casters, when you can already rape casters fairly easily. hybrid ww sins need more of an edge vs. bvc/hammerdin/smiters, not sorc/druid/necros. assuming its all gm.


50% dr is the cap, google it if you want a source, I'm sure there's plenty.

You don't rape casters easily, that's just it. Hybrids are designed to take out opponents a Ghost had issues with (melee) while retaining some similar traits. Since you are a Ghost without maxed Mindblast it's a lot harder to actually chase casters, whereas you shouldn't have any problems vs bvcs/hdins/smiters at all with 8k ls and a strong whirl. The worst char for a hybrid to face is a Necro and most hybrids agree, simply because they abuse a lot of a sin's openings and very easily slip away vs a level 1 Mindblast. Max block Blizzers are also harder than any of the chars you listed.
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Jan 13 2010 07:04pm
Quote (Tails chao @ Jan 14 2010 12:54am)
50% dr is the cap, google it if you want a source, I'm sure there's plenty.

You don't rape casters easily, that's just it. Hybrids are designed to take out opponents a Ghost had issues with (melee) while retaining some similar traits. Since you are a Ghost without maxed Mindblast it's a lot harder to actually chase casters, whereas you shouldn't have any problems vs bvcs/hdins/smiters at all with 8k ls and a strong whirl. The worst char for a hybrid to face is a Necro and most hybrids agree, simply because they abuse a lot of a sin's openings and very easily slip away vs a level 1 Mindblast. Max block Blizzers are also harder than any of the chars you listed.


you're not going to hit or do enough damage vs. bvcs/smites to worth the risk of WWing them over and over. i was never able to even dent a decent bvc or smiter. traps/mindblast/ defensive teleports is what gives you the edge on those classes, on top of a few tele WWs when they are not on screen.

any class with max block can be difficult, considering blizzard will kill you 2-3 hits, even then you should probably stay some distance and try to do a mindblast lock / fire trap stun/ LS them. necros are harder because bone armor tanks some damage, even more the reason to trap them rather than WW and get hit by spirits.

The playing style for a hybrid sin with "trap emphasis" is that you play more like a caster but you another weapon of choice when theres opportunity or casters, where as the typical hybrid needs to play risky like a barb without having the HP and defensive of a barb.
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Jan 13 2010 07:12pm
Quote (fkJSP @ 14 Jan 2010 02:04)
you're not going to hit or do enough damage vs. bvcs/smites to worth the risk of WWing them over and over.  i was never able to even dent a decent bvc or smiter. traps/mindblast/ defensive teleports  is what gives you the edge on those classes, on top of a few tele WWs when they are not on screen.

any class with max block can be difficult, considering blizzard will kill you 2-3 hits, even then you should probably stay some distance and try to do a mindblast lock / fire trap stun/ LS them. necros are harder because bone armor tanks some damage, even more the reason to trap them rather than WW and get hit by spirits.

The playing style for a hybrid sin with "trap emphasis" is that you play more like a caster but you another weapon of choice when theres opportunity or casters, where as the typical hybrid needs to play risky like a barb without having the HP and defensive of a barb.


You can easily outtank a bvc with a solid damage whirl after traps get them to about 50% health or so. Smiters should be a joke with high AR, damage and kb (something a trap based build lacks) since you can make defensive whirl patterns and kb them constantly while traps eat away at their health, same with Hammerdins.

Trying to just set-up a normal trap sequence vs a mb blizzer is dumb with a level 1 mindblast, they can simply just blizz you for 1/2 or 1/3 of your health and wsg out whereas if you had a threatening Whirlwind they would think twice before doing that. Having two weak sources of damage is a terrible idea on a hybrid. Relying on traps as a damage source on a hyb vs necros is also a bad idea since they can abuse that opening to wsg spear you, whereas a high damage whirlwind/dclaw will rape a nec who tries to do that. Bone armour is not significant enough to change that, nor are spirits since you can abuse dclaw+minion stack to safely attack a spirit training necromancer.

Trap play style doesn't work with level 1 mindblast at all, far too many openings and it's extremely hard to keep a good lock. That's why a trap based hybrid performs poorly.

Also, how does a hybrid not tank as well, if not better than a Barbarian? You can get up to 5k hp+60%~ Weapon Block, a Barbarian merely gets 7k-8k hp.
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Jan 13 2010 07:15pm
NN argue with theorycraft.
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Jan 13 2010 07:17pm
Quote (Tails chao @ 14 Jan 2010 02:12)
You can easily outtank a bvc with a solid damage whirl after traps get them to about 50% health or so. Smiters should be a joke with high AR, damage and kb (something a trap based build lacks) since you can make defensive whirl patterns and kb them constantly while traps eat away at their health, same with Hammerdins.

Trying to just set-up a normal trap sequence vs a mb blizzer is dumb with a level 1 mindblast, they can simply just blizz you for 1/2 or 1/3 of your health and wsg out whereas if you had a threatening Whirlwind they would think twice before doing that. Having two weak sources of damage is a terrible idea on a hybrid. Relying on traps as a damage source on a hyb vs necros is also a bad idea since they can abuse that opening to wsg spear you, whereas a high damage whirlwind/dclaw will rape a nec who tries to do that. Bone armour is not significant enough to change that, nor are spirits since you can abuse dclaw+minion stack to safely attack a spirit training necromancer.

Trap play style doesn't work with level 1 mindblast at all, far too many openings and it's extremely hard to keep a good lock. That's why a trap based hybrid performs poorly.

Also, how does a hybrid not tank as well, if not better than a Barbarian? You can get up to 5k hp+60%~ Weapon Block, a Barbarian merely gets 7k-8k hp.


i'd rather go trap based hyb vs paladins and barbs

actually the difference isn't that big between the 2, just shadow sks and trap sks
i used to have 9 shadows and 9 trap sks when i was playing hyb
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Jan 13 2010 07:19pm
Quote (Pari @ 14 Jan 2010 02:17)
i'd rather go trap based hyb vs paladins and barbs

actually the difference isn't that big between the 2, just shadow sks and trap sks
i used to have 9 shadows and 9 trap sks when i was playing hyb


Ya like I said I think trap based does better vs melee chars, he just seems to lack a whirlwind that can hit which I'm guessing is because he neglected it on his trap based build.

and I think the difference is quite big, little things like people who go for +2 sin amulets compared to highlords etc.
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Jan 13 2010 07:30pm
Quote (Tails chao @ 13 Jan 2010 19:19)
Ya like I said I think trap based does better vs melee chars, he just seems to lack a whirlwind that can hit which I'm guessing is because he neglected it on his trap based build.

and I think the difference is quite big, little things like people who go for +2 sin amulets compared to highlords etc.


37% DS is huge IMHO.
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Jan 13 2010 07:33pm
Quote (young2093 @ 14 Jan 2010 02:30)
37% DS is huge IMHO.


Such a sexy amulet lol.
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Jan 13 2010 07:38pm
Quote (Tails chao @ Jan 14 2010 01:19am)
Ya like I said I think trap based does better vs melee chars, he just seems to lack a whirlwind that can hit which I'm guessing is because he neglected it on his trap based build.

and I think the difference is quite big, little things like people who go for +2 sin amulets compared to highlords etc.


i tried wwing with angelics set for more ar, then i was able to get fools claw and visonary + highlords, they were not very effective vs. barbs. one good ww from barb can get me to 20-30% with 4k life and coa DR setup. you cannot trade WWs with a barb as a hybrid sin. unless its a horrible barb.

going to class bbl for this discussion :D
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Jan 13 2010 07:40pm
Quote (fkJSP @ 14 Jan 2010 02:38)
i tried wwing with angelics set for more ar, then i was able to get fools claw and visonary + highlords, they were not very effective vs. barbs. one good ww from barb can get me to 20-30% with 4k life and coa DR setup. you cannot trade WWs with a barb as a hybrid sin. unless its a horrible barb.

going to class bbl for this discussion :D


ok

and the issue vs barbs would be damage since they don't have high defense, which you can fix by finding heavy damage claws and using highlords. vs dins it would be damage and ar.
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