dmg is cold dmg from raven. 15-45 iirc? 30avg dmg *0.17*0.25(assuming 75%res) = 1.25dmg
dmg without raven: (1672+5922-15-45)/2*.17*.55 = 352. 1.25/352 = .35% dmg

(7113-200)/7113 = 97% life with 2*angelic
19k ar vs 24k ar: 40/46 = 87% chance to hit with raven compared to 2*angelic

obvious choice is 2*angelic.

(btw the 6 repl from angelic > 200life after 342 sec)



This post was edited by harabec on Feb 5 2015 02:44pm

the dmg is pretty much useless from the raven, I agree.
just the Freeze is by far more useful as the freeze from 10-20 cold scs.

about the 200 life you can discuss imo, i'd rather take them over the additional 5 k ar.
as it is not a big difference in the end .. and I can't just tell this by my calculations,
I can tell it because I duel with 19-22.5 k ar setups and hit as good as with 25 k in average ^^
my main-BvB setup is @ 22245 ar btw, you can check it on my profile
my 2v2 setup is @ 19 k ar
and both work very well regarded to hit my enemy

that repl life from angelic won't be that effective as 200 life more over the time our duels last.
we duel between 1-3 minutes usually. defensive players up to 5 min

200 life more can save your ass pretty much in some situations.
we got many cases where the duels are decided who makes the last hit, were both are @ 1-100 hp ^^

Edit:

btw we got 25 repl life usually on angelic setups + dungo
( 25 / 256 ) * 25 = 2.44 life per sec

with 19 repl:
( 25 / 256 ) * 25 = 1.85 life per sec

after 100 seconds that's 244 life vs 185 life back.

but you also have to regard the temp dmg of psn, ow that will cut your repl life

repl might beat it still.

This post was edited by Breee on Feb 5 2015 03:13pm

the dmg is pretty much useless from the raven, I agree.
just the Freeze is by far more useful as the freeze from 10-20 cold scs.
what?
about the 200 life you can discuss imo, i'd rather take them over the additional 5 k ar.
as it is not a big difference in the end .. and I can't just tell this by my calculations,
I can tell it because I duel with 19-22.5 k ar setups and hit as good as with 25 k in average ^^
i just showed you, the difference is 13%. that's not small at all. what you experience in duels is affected by random deviation and not useful for comparison
my main-BvB setup is @ 22245 ar btw, you can check it on my profile
my 2v2 setup is @ 19 k ar
and both work very well

that repl life from angelic won't be that effective as 200 life more over the time our duels last.
we duel between 1-3 minutes usually. defensive players up to 5 min
342sec is like 5 and a half minutes, doesn't seem too far out of the range of dueling time to be irrelevant
200 life more can save your ass pretty much in some situations.
we got many cases where the duels are decided who makes the last hit, as both are @ 1-100 hp ^^

Good input. I didn't regard the repl life too much in that case.
if defo gives alot of life back.

I know for comparison it isn't that useful
but there can be also situations where your duel last like 1 minute.

I should calc the average cases:

fergard did alot here: http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=71385625&f=87


This post was edited by Breee on Feb 5 2015 03:15pm

idk what you're trying to say with the 19 vs 25 repl
ow does cut repl, im not sure if psn does too. you'd need to know the expected number of triggers as well as the duel length to account for that.

about the 19 vs 25: i just wanted to compare them so people can give input ^^

y I see, but I think we usually can cut this chances at all, because we all got the Same psn/OW amount.

the other thing is, the Raven gives additional time of freeze in our duels, also you can't be frozen,
which is an advantage as well, as I figured out when I used my fools builds with raven.

You are right for sure, in average the barb with 25k ar will hit more than the one with 19k ar.. by 15% more to be exactly.
this might be good for theorycrafting, but in the duels itself it won't have much value at all .. you know how the game is
because I got like 300-400 duels with such low ar builds and I didn't feel it worse as the 25 k ar botd builds at all^^
btw:



this sums it up pretty much.. ow, repl,psn,cold etc. shouldn't be part of our comparisons ^^

If I got time I'll calculate the average cases

This post was edited by Breee on Feb 5 2015 03:49pm

nice guide learned alot (: gonna create my first aow barb now..

well imo you are missing one big point...

the difference between 10% chance to hit and 12% chance to hit is not 2% more dam for you, but 20%.
5 K ar is not "a little difference".

lets see in case u hit 10% after block and chance to hit calc and you do 100 dam vs player average per hit:
during 10 seconds with ww you try to hit 62,5 times(in case of infinite ww and opponent inside your range).
you should hit in average 6,25 times with 10% chance -> 625 dam in 10 seconds

now with 11% chance to hit:
in 10 seconds you hit in average 62,5 * 11/100 = 6,875 hits in 10 secs
100 dam*6,875 hit = 687,5 dam.

you hurt 10% more with 1% more chance to hit in this example.

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=71385625&f=87

e/ just saw harabec is saying the same
also about that psn dam stops replenish its true... but without replenish psn dam lowers your life XD so repl life is life with or without psn

This post was edited by FerGarD on Feb 6 2015 03:57am

this is simply wrong. the game works exactly based on that. like i said before, your subjective experience on the matter is biased by deviation.
if you have a difference of 15%chance to hit, it's the same (actually higher chance to hit > raw dmg) as taking the dmg of the build with lower cth * 0.85.
in the example i used above that would be 5033 instead of 5922 max dmg.


everything can be included in comparisons, you just have to make a few assumptions.
hypothetical example (my profile has a visualisation of this): let's say with range 2 you do 50% of the hits you do with range 3. simply half your total damage of your range 2 weapon to compare it to range 3.
/this is what i was referring to:


This post was edited by harabec on Feb 6 2015 04:01am

mmmm no...
you cant, you cant make an accurate prediction over open wounds for example. it depends too much in the way of playing. you cant know how much % of the time of dueling in average the other player will be in range, even vs the same player in 2 diffeent days.
also range... because it changes with angle too, and there is moments in which range 2 weapon have same range as range 1 weapon, you can't give me an accurate average number about that, so.... no

This post was edited by FerGarD on Feb 6 2015 04:08am