so yeah to reiterate the amended build:

1 java sk 6str would add great on you!

lvl87 = +65str from nigma
65+1for bug-20anni-20torch-20str bugged titans = 6 extra hidden str needed to str bug a nigma

nigma str req > base str+(visual str like mebe on your ring) + nigma str

This post was edited by Tommyvv on Mar 15 2011 04:33pm

ive always been iffy with the equip order, since titans gives +20 and storm gives +35 its hard to figure out those strength glitching your enigma properly
the best way is just to test it out yourself with a buddy or multi-client to make sure its glitched

but yeah kudos good sir, its definitely worth 33 life to str glitch your nigma, esp if your boots manage it too.

...just make sure you can pick up your body with either switch out


its very easy to str glitch an enigma, its much harder to str glitch your enigma and be able to pick up body

This post was edited by Goomshill on Mar 15 2011 04:31pm

you need to press w 1-2 times if you die in bowmode
but ofc, nigma is still str bugged when in bowmode/adding hidden frw


This post was edited by Tommyvv on Mar 15 2011 04:37pm

yeah thats what I figured
I'm not sure I'd like to have to pick up my body like that

but I wonder if its possible to have your items equip in the right order to be able to both pick up your body *and* strength bug (in both setups)


i haven't bothered with it on this zon since my godly godly boots lacked frw anyway so it wasn't really worth glitching. plus gothic is ultra sexy
but ye most people would find it worth it to str gltich

whoops I fucked up the above.
after some discussion with my multi account companyofthree, we came up with this:



A diamond bow hits 7 FPA with that same setup so theres no reason to use a mat bow
You can use either diamond or ward bow as to your preference, same average damage (I think ward bow is better- you'll rarely FHR someone from the damage alone and not KB, but with higher max damage it makes it more likely on lucky hits. Plus, more impressive char screen)

now you *could* use a mat bow and thus free up the 15% ias on your griffons socket and still hit 7 FPA, however I don't think theres any very good substitutes
You could use a mat bow and swap the 15/15 for a facet (either poison or light), but frankly I think the 15% resists alone is worth more than a facet
the zon already struggles for resists, so its questionable about how useful a facet would be over it. And even bigger is the debate of poison vs light facet- which is worth more?

its sort of a matter of preference and just how much resists you are getting off your boots and charms- if they are perfect, and your rare ammy & gloves both give resists, then go with a mat bow / facet option
but I still have no idea which would be worth more in poison vs light facet. There are very, very good reasons for both

however if your gear isn't perfect, I'd say stick with a diamond bow and 15/15 in your griffons.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Mar 15 2011 05:44pm

Never you reach 7 fpa or explain to us... or perhaps in dream

7 fpa matri bp = 45 ias
7 fpa diamond bp = 65 ias
You only got 20 ias from gloves and 15 ias from griffon or 0 right ? so only 35 or 20 ias
Something is wrong here... my set up explain #193 = 7 fpa with matri (50 ias = 20 from gloves and 30 from rare circlet) not your

This post was edited by Sebounet on Mar 21 2011 04:27am

thats a typo, supposed to be 8 FPA

theres no way to reach 7 FPA on a telezon without sacrificing something hard. For example, if you go with a rare circlet, you have to add a 2nd FCR ring to make up the lost 5% FCR from griffons -> You lose Cannot Be Frozen.
And theres no reason to sacrifice the lightning +/- on griffons just to get 7 FPA when you'd lose it right back the second you get hit by a someone with cold
Same sort of problems for subbing out arachs for a nosferutos, or fcr ammy for highlords, etc. I cannot stress how much more important 75% fcr BP is that 7 frame FPA.
You don't win duels by chucking arrows at people with this zon, no zon wins duels by chucking arrows at people (bowazons, well, suck in the upper tiers of PvP)
The real way of winning is through plague javelin (accounting for maybe 60% of your total damage), and Fury/CS/Garrow only making up the rest
Garrow is more important for its stunning through KB and pressure it puts on people than actually dealing damage.
Its just fine to chug along at 8 FPA, its not whatsoever worth losing both FCR frame & FCR action frame to get 7 FPA, not by a long shot.

The only way you could retain 7 FPA *and* 75% fcr with CBF mod is through using a 3/20 helm (3 sock 20 fcr) with 2x 15/15's and a cham rune, plus another fcr ring.
And thats horrid for multiple reasons. For one, it cripples your CS/Fury damage, which are maybe 3-4x more important than you garrow output. You lose the +15/-20 on griffons, and -1 skills
For two, it screws your ability to sub in sorb items for matchups. You can't rely on stats from rare rings to equip items, since then you can't wear wisps/dwarfs/ravens as needed. And when you want to put on an 85/15 kiras for stack, you'd cripple both your ias & fcr
The fact it screws your light damage for the expense of bowa is already enough- fury alone is more important than garrow for raw damage output. CS is the kicker.




What you fail to realize is that the action frames on a zon are its saving grace, making its teleports actually work reliably, because it doesn't matter if dodge/evade/avoid interrupts them for the latter half of the animation.
Its more than suitable for 1v1 GM, much moreso than any other zon build, period.

Its not just about having extra life, but consider this. My 3700 HP zon tanks more than a 5000 HP hammerdin. With 61% chance of avoiding say a fireball, you tank the equivalent of 3700 / 0.39 = 9500 HP
Thats right, as many shots to take you down as a 9500 HP barbarian overall. And mind, most people let zons use hotspurs for some odd reason, so that might take a 15k fireball sorc ~38 shots on average to kill you
You can sit there and let a sorc pound away for 20+ seconds before you die.


But thats not the point. The point is in tactics, and how they let you overcome just about every character, with only the most minor few weaknesses (the best of the best BvC's, really)

Take an example duel against a smiter. Heres how it works.
The smiter has maybe a 1/12 to 1/10 chance to hit you on a charge, due to block, evade & defense. All you need to do is walk away through the cloud of a plague javelin.
If he namelock charges straight at you, he'll get poisoned and widdle down to 1 HP while his charges just bounce off you, and you can walk a few steps away, let him whiff and throw a KB fury/bolt, and teleport away
He'll get maybe 2-3 chances to stop you from breaking the lock before a walk+teleport combo gets you away and lets you tele a few screens to shake off his namelock

At which point the duel is over. Because I can kill most smiters just walking away from them while they are poisoned until they are at 1 hp and then just standing still and letting their charge connect or let them switch to smite and watch the damage to attacker on stormshield instantly kill them.
But when you can teleport out of a lock while they are whiffing, its just sad. The duel all comes down to luck, and its like 95% in your favor. The smiter cannot ever smite you, and has basically nil chances to connect with charge, and even when he does, it takes him 4-5 hits anyway
Meanwhile theres no way for him to avoid plague javelin, which just kills him brutally fast




Now look at a duel like the aforementioned fire sorc. Lets say you dueled her on a pure plague javelin zon. What does she do? She knows that if she telestomps you, she'll wind up in a plague cloud and die faster than she can say "squidaquidwich". All the plague zon has to do is stand in plague clouds, and walk away if the sorc is ever dumb enough to telestomp her- just walking away in zig zags at a curved angle is all it takes, and the sorc will never, ever hit you. Remember, it might take her 38 hits at that. But this is not a loss for the fire sorc, because she'll instantly figure out the obvious thing to do- not try to telestomp you. Anyone who tries to telestomp a plague zon won't do it a second time. So she'll just stay at a distance, being careful to avoid plague fields, and spam fireballs at you.

And she'd win, doing that. Against a pure plague zon.

But against a DAMACH zon, you can be spamming arrows out of your ass in the meantime, locking her up with chains of kb arrows from garrow/multi spam, knocking her out of her orbit around you. At the same time, you can pull off daring chainlock CS any time you feel shes off guard. And all this time, she'll be afraid to telestomp you. Hell, I just dueled the best geared best played fire sorc on all of ladder the other day on her 99, and she had no chance. She tried stomping for the first few duels and quickly figured her mistake, but even after like 10 duels she still hadn't won a single one- in fact, she had only only gotten me down to 30% hp once, and I wasn't even using my hotspurs. She just kept trying to chainlock me all day long, and just walking at a curved south angle avoids it all while the plague does my dirty work.



What we're talking about sons, is a char that can tank more than the biggest Babas, who can kill most people with 1 hit given time (and time provided by made escape skills & that insane tanking), and pressure them in a half dozen other ways that can all quickly seal a duel.
So if the question is, does it work in GM 1v1? Then the answer isn't just "Yes", the answer is that no *other* zon build works in GM 1v1.

Always glad to help myself out
Still gotta read half of this thread as the discussions got so much larger than they were at the beginning