Bullshit, no pro necro bothers with life tap outside of ubertrist with end gear.
Gulli, treacher snd reapers is the go to combo for p1, true but usless to a necro.

This post was edited by babun1024 on Dec 19 2021 07:03am

trash. You can skip this set up only if u're lazy AF (wich I can agree with, it can be funny to play with something different from time to time) or if u are a nab that thinks life tap is not an insane utility to let your merc go bonkers DPS.

https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=82851877&f=87

take a look to this guide of mine (I don't suggest 3 trang in this economy, but till at least u can find some basics here) before you go back to your 3tal bliz sorc.

edit: btw we were not talking specifically about uber, wtf u come with ubertrist in conversation? the OP just wanted to play around with a general pvm set up, not a uber summoner bro

This post was edited by Banjoco on Dec 19 2021 07:11am

And I am telling you OUTSIDE of Ubertrist you DON'T bother with life tap, waste of time, slows clear speed. You either cast amplify or decrepify depending on the situation. Your setup of gulli, treach and infinity has NO life leech on the merc itself.
I am refering to this:


Why bother with perfect base for treachery with too much of a defence if you want him to get hit to trigger fade? Without fade, your merc could put on any armor with 3x15ias jewel inside, even 60 ias is possible with 4 sockets. The whole point of the treachery+ gulli combo is for the merc to get hit to cast fade and the 30% fhr on gulli so he recovers in time to hit back and not die.

Noobs

This post was edited by babun1024 on Dec 19 2021 07:18am

Banjoco is right of course, this is the most complete necro guide here, and also recommend Guillaume with treachery and infinity.

https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=48460552

When your merc is sorrounded by an army of 15-17 skellies + golem and it's hitting faster and harder than ever with all those auras and amp damage, it's getting hit way less often than usual, so most of the runs is perfectly fine with just his innate hp recovery without any leech, and you have either decrepy or a one second life tap if things are getting dangerous.

This is about speed, the extra CB of Guillaume saves a lot more time in bosses than the ocassional second you loss for casting life tap.

I do main pvm nec and eg baba since so much time, and you know why?

Couz my favorite "unit" in the game are mecs, and I think I abused/builded around with them way more then 99% of this pve community, but I till have to fight with randoms that have NEVER tried the char in questionr while talking about nosense.


coh sorc/10 v2.0

that user is obv trash, but while I can tank/ignore trash comments on most pve builds 20 years old I can not let them say trash about my necro, sorry boys

This post was edited by Banjoco on Dec 19 2021 07:32am

I tried all the setups myself in D2R, even the ones with more crushing blow (gulli 15ias+ rattlecage 15ias+infinity), the only boss taking too long was Baal. Your merc is the main damage dealer but against act bosses there is damage penalty and Baal simply has got too high of a lvl and blocks attacks. In p1, there wasn't much of a difference between treachery+ infinity+gulli setup or the the same with andy with an ias jewel inside. In player 2-4 the lack of damage from teachery became apparent because CB loses its meaning massivly. I changed his setup to andy 15ias+fortitude+infinity. It shoved more seconds off the clock but still too slow compared to a char like sorc. My last ressort was 1 point in poison dagger for the attack rating boost. Then I equiped shaeled fleshripper+ goblin toes+ homunculus 15ias jewel on switch. That way, I could clear Baal faster, like much faster. Is it worth it? Nope, better to run around with beast and have a cta on switch. I rather not babysit my merc.

A very high defence treachery is strictly inferior to a grisworld's armor with 3 sockets (place for 3x 15ias/40ed jewels or other goodies). Your necro works, that much is certain 100%, making a summon necro work isn't the hardest thing in the world. Whether your BiS makes sense is another story. A high def treachery among an army of skeletons doesn't make sense, like totally doesn't.

This post was edited by babun1024 on Dec 19 2021 07:49am

it's starting to become hilarious.

babun is obv right that a general mf nec with insight/golem infy/merc set up is not that good at taking baal spot at p8 mf split runs .

Till, gface/treachery is by far your best DPS improvement vs bosses there, btw. It's the best set up with infy if you don't mind pressing once in a blue moon life tap as above discussed / aknowledge by the nec community.

This game is hard, I get you don't have the APM to do so, sorry about that.

I don't have time to check the forum anymore today, but I'm corious to know the switch suggested to farm AT at p8 with an Hdin, since we are at it.

Brain power

edit: on why using a perf treachery base. You know, people grind enough/are wealthy enough to buy perfect items. go on bliz forums if you want to complain about end game collection items, not on d2jsp bro.

This post was edited by Banjoco on Dec 19 2021 08:02am

You clearly didn't try it, of you would have noticed that merc don't need life leech to survive, you are not babysitting him.

Let's make some logical assumptions, you don't play only summon nec, so your nec, your javazon, your sorc and your trapsin all use the same infinity you have, so you just pick and eth threser infinity and roll with it, instead of focusing on the best base for the time you have lvl9 fana with your merc, then you go to fight baal, we also assume that since Baal barely do anything with decrepy we are casting decrepy on him, you can also cast amp, is the same but faster, at least if baal is not trolling teleporting around all the time.



Players 8 Baal, first setup is the one you end up choosing, forty + andy with IAS jewel + eth thresher infinity, that one that make sense "because CB loses its meaning massivly"

Second one is the meta build for summon nec, guillaume with 15IAS jewel, treachery and infinity, again eth thresher, not the ideal with lvl9 fana, but like I said you share it with more chars, so it is what it is, of course is meta for a reason, is by far the best.

Last one is treachery, andy with IAS jewel and the same infinity the meaningless extra CB is giving 190k more damage per second with the good setup.

The meta one is a ~60% time save and if you are wonder, with amp damage instead of decrepy is the same, around 60% faster than the other 2, in fact the meta one is faster with decrepy than the other two with amp damage.

Higher player count don't make CB meaningless, it the other way around, CB would take the same amount of HP the first hit in p1 and p8, since it damage don't scale with player count, that is true, but since enemies at p8 stay with high hp more time, the amount of damage CB add is extremely high aswell, in the other hand, your high 15k attacks are less impresive when Baal have 2+M life instead of 450k hp, well even less impresives since you need to divide that by the merc damage penalty against bosses, so CB is by far the biggest source of damage.

EDIT: Also, yes, we know a jeweler armors with godly IAS jewel are BiS most of the time, you use treachery because you get 45IAS anyway and a very nice extra in fade for almost not cost at all, I really don't care if the base is perfect or not, 1k def or 600k is not going to do any real difference at all in the gameplay, fade will proc anyway and the merc will get hit almost the same, since def is pretty much an useless stat for pvm.

This post was edited by Titus1986 on Dec 19 2021 08:25am

edit: I had a 24fhr jeweler with 4x duped perfect jewels in NL for my merc, lost with other things sadly. There is 1 screenshot on this forum for the flex somewhere but I cant find it atm

anyway, the "bis" has been there for so many years since it's better, cost effective, and the common infy base make you switch/resell on ladder. Nuff said.

the conversation on fana lvl 9 and different infy base will prob be there IF they buff the "garbo" mages in the next patch (finally). atm, outside uber, there is no real point to play pure summoner since:

poisonova have enough points to cap nova and the important summon skills (trash summon, skelly buffer, 1 in IG & summon res, skip trash mage and useless revive) on top of a weapon with maek/laek with literally no tradeoff vs summoner, UNLESS you need revive for CB (uber) or mages for... no reason in this patch time.

This post was edited by Banjoco on Dec 19 2021 08:58am

Reality is, decrepify is cast half of the time before you know it in Chaos or Throne room, even worse in D2R so BiS is any armor with 4 sockets with 4x 15ias jewels and a thresher or giant thresher as the base (you have to overcap, merc is the main damage dealer). The best possible version would be a jeweler's armor with fhr and 4x 15ias/40ed jewels. Gulli can get a 15ias/15@ resistance for all I care, I'd put an andy on. I'd pay 3k or more for that setup with my eyes closed, not some crap eth ap 15ed treachery with 3 sockets.


My fastest setup I tried against Baal: shaeled fleshripper with 1 point in poison dagger and 15ias jewel in homunculus on switch has got 30% slow from arachnid and fleshripper. It's like having a clay golem around with your insight iron golem at the same time. Amplify is faster in this case, like much faster and yeah you hit Baal all the time, he never ceased to be green from poison dagger. It was even faster with goblin toes on but I'd rather have the mf from wts so I ditched them for WTs.

It's not like the merc doesn't have CB at all, there's 40% from infinity. Whoever farms Baal in p8 with a summon necro does something very wrong. I usually set my split mf games with him to p4.

That we agree with each other upon and was my point agains the 3k fg treachery base which was recommended as BiS

This post was edited by babun1024 on Dec 19 2021 09:39am