No



Wrong



Think that all you want
Its not true



Your math is wrong

Lol yes - math is lying...nothing new from "Ranorn Frontier"...tell me whats wrong with the calculation? U only don´t accept it, because it doesn´t show, that Grief is the best weapon!

GRIEF OFFERS NOTHING FOR A UT-SMITER!!! NOTHING!!! Perhaps there will be a time, where all the Grief Noobs see that CB > Damage!!! Grief only makes it easy to hit fastest smite speed - but this is also possible with the other setups. Thats why the old calculation (sticky guide!) is not complete (its not wrong, its only with bad conditions for LW Setup).

Tell me Ranorn - o great Ranorn - king of the iron fist unreal tournament - what is important for EACH UT-Char? Be an oracle for us ignorant infidels!

(BTW: Grief is still a great weapon for UT - thanks to his damage+ it can be compared with real UT-Weapons, thanks to his damage+ it can be used in UT - but we all know (except Ranorn) that Damage is not the most important in UT! The IAS is useless - u can use Fanatism + HL + 15Ias Jool to reach last Breakpoint with e.g. LW-PB)

To proof that CB> Damage:

1 Hit comparision between 100% CB LW and 75% CB Grief:
Enemy spot: UberMeph - 20% DR, 650.000 HP, Worst Case -> CB applies with LW and doesnt with Grief (using common setups for each weap)

LW: (the 0,9 is the factor for applied CBs, if applied its 0,9, if not its 1. Formula: (HP*CB)-Damage, Base damage before 20% DR is 2797,445
HP LW CB Damage LW
0 650000 582762,044 0,9 2237,956
1 582762,044 522247,8836 0,9

First hit: LW deals 650.000 - 582762,044 = 67237,956 Damage

Grief with no applying CB: (dont forget the 20% DR - base damage is 5872,635 with 400+damage
HP Grief1 CB Damage Grief
0 650000 645301,892 1 4698,108
1 645301,892 640603,784 1 4698,108

First hit: Grief deals 650.000 - 645301,892 = 4698,108 Damage

Now Ranorn - my Math Wonder...letz do a simple equation
LW 67237,956
Grief 4698,108

Wich Number is higher?

(TO BE HONEST - at the end of each sequence Grief gets better, it deals a lot of base damage what helps to finish bosses. The average damage of both setups is nearly equal, but LW offers u more adds like +56 Ress and LifeTap and more freedom with the rest of gear)

And now we all know, that Ranorn won´t answer anymore - because i´m an infidel, who doesn´t believe in the Power of Grief...YES WE CAN...

This post was edited by macros_1102 on Jul 24 2011 01:47am

Where are u Ranorn - i´m waiting for ur inspiration...

your math is flawed becouse you only show the occasion where cb doesn't apply
you get less cb hits with grief setup sure but thats countered by the high damage that helps to kill them faster when they have low hp
grief>lw although both work fine

you seriously need to be quiet already.

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=48695603&f=161&p=327849162

asteron's only surpasses grief setup by a worst case scenario on grief's part. meaning if the cb checks were the final .25 of the 1.00 series (in layman's terms- 2/3 last hits of a 10 hit serie)

since that doesn't happen frequently, and since grief can even have up to 85% cb in its setup, on 95% of the occasions anyone runs a ut, grief will be better.

astreon is much better ( more cb, skills, slow )

grief is useless vs ubers ( more useless point damage, no usefull other mods )








lol this is best part, u just doom bro

This post was edited by hanni_69 on Jul 24 2011 04:22am

AH - i forgot u Lightman...i have already seen ur calculation - which is made for a victory of Grief (the basic math is correct - but there are some forgotten points inside!)

Ur LW Setup is crappy!!! EOS? Lol? Dwarf? WTH??? NN for this. Switch to Arach + BK/Soj = 2 more skills. U also can use BO on switch with LW-Setup. -> 1 More skillpoint. 3 more Skillpoints with LW-Setup - and if u put 2 15/15 jools inside ur Gulli and Zaka - u reach the last breakpoint - so u can use Mara instead of HL - what offers again 1 more SK. When u calculate - pls insert TRUE Skills for both setups. At least LW offers u minimum 2 more Skillpoints(Mara+BO) then Grief (if u also switch Dwarf and EOS from Griefsetup) - i can´t see this in ur calculation. Both setups were calculated with same Skill-Bonus - and this is wrong!!!

Now take a closer look on the resist:
Grief:
in Hell: 67 (with XX/20 Anni)
vs. Meph: -58 (hard to get stacked) (btw - great to have the dwarf then ^^)
(YY we know - u can switch to salvation...with lowering ur damage by 509% (!!!) )

LW: (with Gulli)
in Hell: 146
vs. Meph: 21 (medium to get stacked)

LW: (with CoA and only 95% CB)
in Hell: 174
vs. Meph: 49 (easy to get stacked)

Where is ur Calculation with Salvation with Grief??? If u dont switch to salvation u don´t need Highlords. But i think u switch to salvation to get additional Ress that ur Setup doesn´t offer (it also works without, but ur chance to die increases a lot). This switch will leave Grief behind LW! But its not shown in ur guide!

Sorry Lightman - but ur Guide is a little bit onesided. U are true when u say it doesn´t happen frequently - but it happens. And all calculations here at dsp (including mine) calculate with worst case scenario. But for worst case scenario u also need to take a closer look on Salvation with Grief (what lots of people use vs. Meph).

By the way - here the sequence with ur preferred Setup vs. Meph with 4 Skillers and activated Salvation. Base Damage: 6798,675 Base Damage with Salvation: 3809,46 Damage after 20% DR: 3047,568

HP Grief2 CB Damage Grief
0 650000 646952,432 1 3047,568
1 646952,432 643904,864 1 3047,568
2 643904,864 640857,296 1 3047,568
3 640857,296 637809,728 1 3047,568
4 637809,728 634762,16 1 3047,568
5 634762,16 568238,376 0,9 3047,568
6 568238,376 508366,9704 0,9 3047,568
7 508366,9704 454482,7054 0,9 3047,568
8 454482,7054 405986,8668 0,9 3047,568
9 405986,8668 362340,6121 0,9 3047,568
10 362340,6121 323058,9829 0,9 3047,568
11 323058,9829 287705,5166 0,9 3047,568
12 287705,5166 255887,397 0,9 3047,568
13 255887,397 227251,0893 0,9 3047,568
14 227251,0893 201478,4123 0,9 3047,568
15 201478,4123 178283,0031 0,9 3047,568
16 178283,0031 157407,1348 0,9 3047,568
17 157407,1348 138618,8533 0,9 3047,568
18 138618,8533 121709,4 0,9 3047,568
19 121709,4 106490,892 0,9 3047,568
20 106490,892 103443,324 1 3047,568
21 103443,324 100395,756 1 3047,568
22 100395,756 97348,18799 1 3047,568
23 97348,18799 94300,61999 1 3047,568
24 94300,61999 91253,05199 1 3047,568
25 91253,05199 79080,17879 0,9 3047,568
26 79080,17879 68124,59291 0,9 3047,568
27 68124,59291 58264,56562 0,9 3047,568
28 58264,56562 49390,54106 0,9 3047,568
29 49390,54106 41403,91895 0,9 3047,568
30 41403,91895 34215,95906 0,9 3047,568
31 34215,95906 27746,79515 0,9 3047,568
32 27746,79515 21924,54764 0,9 3047,568
33 21924,54764 16684,52487 0,9 3047,568
34 16684,52487 11968,50439 0,9 3047,568
35 11968,50439 7724,085947 0,9 3047,568
36 7724,085947 3904,109352 0,9 3047,568
37 3904,109352 466,1304171 0,9 3047,568
38 466,1304171 -2628,050625 0,9 3047,568
39 -2628,050625 -5412,813562 0,9 3047,568

And to compare FAIR with LW-Setup with Coa (95% CB), 3 more Skillpoints (Mara+Coa+Bo), activated Fanatism, Base Damage: 3101,895, Damage after 20% DR: 2481,516

HP LW CB Damage LW
0 650000 647518,484 1 2481,516
1 647518,484 580285,1196 0,9 2481,516
2 580285,1196 519775,0916 0,9 2481,516
3 519775,0916 465316,0665 0,9 2481,516
4 465316,0665 416302,9438 0,9 2481,516
5 416302,9438 372191,1334 0,9 2481,516
6 372191,1334 332490,5041 0,9 2481,516
7 332490,5041 296759,9377 0,9 2481,516
8 296759,9377 264602,4279 0,9 2481,516
9 264602,4279 235660,6691 0,9 2481,516
10 235660,6691 209613,0862 0,9 2481,516
11 209613,0862 186170,2616 0,9 2481,516
12 186170,2616 165071,7194 0,9 2481,516
13 165071,7194 146083,0315 0,9 2481,516
14 146083,0315 128993,2123 0,9 2481,516
15 128993,2123 113612,3751 0,9 2481,516
16 113612,3751 99769,6216 0,9 2481,516
17 99769,6216 87311,14344 0,9 2481,516
18 87311,14344 76098,51309 0,9 2481,516
19 76098,51309 66007,14578 0,9 2481,516
20 66007,14578 63525,62978 1 2481,516
21 63525,62978 54691,55081 0,9 2481,516
22 54691,55081 46740,87973 0,9 2481,516
23 46740,87973 39585,27575 0,9 2481,516
24 39585,27575 33145,23218 0,9 2481,516
25 33145,23218 27349,19296 0,9 2481,516
26 27349,19296 22132,75766 0,9 2481,516
27 22132,75766 17437,9659 0,9 2481,516
28 17437,9659 13212,65331 0,9 2481,516
29 13212,65331 9409,871977 0,9 2481,516
30 9409,871977 5987,368779 0,9 2481,516
31 5987,368779 2907,115901 0,9 2481,516
32 2907,115901 134,8883113 0,9 2481,516
33 134,8883113 -2360,11652 0,9 2481,516
34 -2360,11652 -4605,620868 0,9 2481,516

Now Grief Vs Dia/Baal
HP Grief1 CB Damage Grief
0 650000 646600,6625 1 3399,3375
1 646600,6625 643201,325 1 3399,3375
2 643201,325 639801,9875 1 3399,3375
3 639801,9875 636402,65 1 3399,3375
4 636402,65 633003,3125 1 3399,3375
5 633003,3125 590041,268 0,9375 3399,3375
6 590041,268 549764,3512 0,9375 3399,3375
7 549764,3512 512004,7418 0,9375 3399,3375
8 512004,7418 476605,1079 0,9375 3399,3375
9 476605,1079 443417,9512 0,9375 3399,3375
10 443417,9512 412304,9917 0,9375 3399,3375
11 412304,9917 383136,5922 0,9375 3399,3375
12 383136,5922 355791,2177 0,9375 3399,3375
13 355791,2177 330154,9291 0,9375 3399,3375
14 330154,9291 306120,9085 0,9375 3399,3375
15 306120,9085 283589,0143 0,9375 3399,3375
16 283589,0143 262465,3634 0,9375 3399,3375
17 262465,3634 242661,9407 0,9375 3399,3375
18 242661,9407 224096,2319 0,9375 3399,3375
19 224096,2319 206690,8799 0,9375 3399,3375
20 206690,8799 203291,5424 1 3399,3375
21 203291,5424 199892,2049 1 3399,3375
22 199892,2049 196492,8674 1 3399,3375
23 196492,8674 193093,5299 1 3399,3375
24 193093,5299 189694,1924 1 3399,3375
25 189694,1924 174438,9679 0,9375 3399,3375
26 174438,9679 160137,1949 0,9375 3399,3375
27 160137,1949 146729,2827 0,9375 3399,3375
28 146729,2827 134159,365 0,9375 3399,3375
29 134159,365 122375,0672 0,9375 3399,3375
30 122375,0672 111327,288 0,9375 3399,3375
31 111327,288 100969,995 0,9375 3399,3375
32 100969,995 91260,03281 0,9375 3399,3375
33 91260,03281 82156,94326 0,9375 3399,3375
34 82156,94326 73622,79681 0,9375 3399,3375
35 73622,79681 65622,03451 0,9375 3399,3375
36 65622,03451 58121,31985 0,9375 3399,3375
37 58121,31985 51089,39986 0,9375 3399,3375
38 51089,39986 44496,97487 0,9375 3399,3375
39 44496,97487 38316,57644 0,9375 3399,3375
40 38316,57644 34917,23894 1 3399,3375
41 34917,23894 31517,90144 1 3399,3375
42 31517,90144 28118,56394 1 3399,3375
43 28118,56394 24719,22644 1 3399,3375
44 24719,22644 21319,88894 1 3399,3375
45 21319,88894 16588,05838 0,9375 3399,3375
46 16588,05838 12151,96723 0,9375 3399,3375
47 12151,96723 7993,13178 0,9375 3399,3375
48 7993,13178 4094,223544 0,9375 3399,3375
49 4094,223544 438,9970725 0,9375 3399,3375
50 438,9970725 -2987,777745 0,9375 3399,3375
51 -2987,777745 -6200,379136 0,9375 3399,3375

Now LW with 95% CB vs Dia/Baal

HP LW CB Damage LW
0 650000 648449,0525 1 1550,9475
1 648449,0525 606370,0392 0,9375 1550,9475
2 606370,0392 566920,9643 0,9375 1550,9475
3 566920,9643 529937,4565 0,9375 1550,9475
4 529937,4565 495265,418 0,9375 1550,9475
5 495265,418 462760,3818 0,9375 1550,9475
6 462760,3818 432286,9105 0,9375 1550,9475
7 432286,9105 403718,0311 0,9375 1550,9475
8 403718,0311 376934,7066 0,9375 1550,9475
9 376934,7066 351825,34 0,9375 1550,9475
10 351825,34 328285,3087 0,9375 1550,9475
11 328285,3087 306216,5294 0,9375 1550,9475
12 306216,5294 285527,0488 0,9375 1550,9475
13 285527,0488 266130,6608 0,9375 1550,9475
14 266130,6608 247946,547 0,9375 1550,9475
15 247946,547 230898,9403 0,9375 1550,9475
16 230898,9403 214916,809 0,9375 1550,9475
17 214916,809 199933,561 0,9375 1550,9475
18 199933,561 185886,7659 0,9375 1550,9475
19 185886,7659 172717,8955 0,9375 1550,9475
20 172717,8955 171166,948 1 1550,9475
21 171166,948 158918,0663 0,9375 1550,9475
22 158918,0663 147434,7396 0,9375 1550,9475
23 147434,7396 136669,1209 0,9375 1550,9475
24 136669,1209 126576,3534 0,9375 1550,9475
25 126576,3534 117114,3838 0,9375 1550,9475
26 117114,3838 108243,7873 0,9375 1550,9475
27 108243,7873 99927,60308 0,9375 1550,9475
28 99927,60308 92131,18039 0,9375 1550,9475
29 92131,18039 84822,03411 0,9375 1550,9475
30 84822,03411 77969,70948 0,9375 1550,9475
31 77969,70948 71545,65514 0,9375 1550,9475
32 71545,65514 65523,10419 0,9375 1550,9475
33 65523,10419 59876,96268 0,9375 1550,9475
34 59876,96268 54583,70501 0,9375 1550,9475
35 54583,70501 49621,27595 0,9375 1550,9475
36 49621,27595 44968,9987 0,9375 1550,9475
37 44968,9987 40607,48878 0,9375 1550,9475
38 40607,48878 36518,57324 0,9375 1550,9475
39 36518,57324 32685,21491 0,9375 1550,9475
40 32685,21491 31134,26741 1 1550,9475
41 31134,26741 27637,4282 0,9375 1550,9475
42 27637,4282 24359,14143 0,9375 1550,9475
43 24359,14143 21285,74759 0,9375 1550,9475
44 21285,74759 18404,44087 0,9375 1550,9475
45 18404,44087 15703,21581 0,9375 1550,9475
46 15703,21581 13170,81733 0,9375 1550,9475
47 13170,81733 10796,69374 0,9375 1550,9475
48 10796,69374 8570,952884 0,9375 1550,9475
49 8570,952884 6484,320829 0,9375 1550,9475
50 6484,320829 4528,103277 0,9375 1550,9475
51 4528,103277 2694,149322 0,9375 1550,9475
52 2694,149322 974,8174896 0,9375 1550,9475
53 974,8174896 -637,0561035 0,9375 1550,9475
54 -637,0561035 -2148,187597 0,9375 1550,9475


Vs. Dia+Baal Grief is 6 Hits faster, Vs. Meph Grief is 5 Hits slower.

The safest Setup with massive Ress, massive Lifetap is 1 hit slower then Grief Setup - This is really great. To show u, that LW can be better then Grief - check this out:

100% CB with Gulli sequence vs. Meph (2 more Skills then Grief setup - Mara + Bo) Base Damage: 2938,755 Damage after 20% DR: 2351,004
HP LW CB Damage LW
0 650000 582648,996 0,9 2351,004
1 582648,996 522033,0924 0,9 2351,004
2 522033,0924 467478,7792 0,9 2351,004
3 467478,7792 418379,8972 0,9 2351,004
4 418379,8972 374190,9035 0,9 2351,004
5 374190,9035 334420,8092 0,9 2351,004
6 334420,8092 298627,7243 0,9 2351,004
7 298627,7243 266413,9478 0,9 2351,004
8 266413,9478 237421,549 0,9 2351,004
9 237421,549 211328,3901 0,9 2351,004
10 211328,3901 187844,5471 0,9 2351,004
11 187844,5471 166709,0884 0,9 2351,004
12 166709,0884 147687,1756 0,9 2351,004
13 147687,1756 130567,454 0,9 2351,004
14 130567,454 115159,7046 0,9 2351,004
15 115159,7046 101292,7302 0,9 2351,004
16 101292,7302 88812,45314 0,9 2351,004
17 88812,45314 77580,20382 0,9 2351,004
18 77580,20382 67471,17944 0,9 2351,004
19 67471,17944 58373,0575 0,9 2351,004
20 58373,0575 50184,74775 0,9 2351,004
21 50184,74775 42815,26897 0,9 2351,004
22 42815,26897 36182,73807 0,9 2351,004
23 36182,73807 30213,46027 0,9 2351,004
24 30213,46027 24841,11024 0,9 2351,004
25 24841,11024 20005,99522 0,9 2351,004
26 20005,99522 15654,39169 0,9 2351,004
27 15654,39169 11737,94853 0,9 2351,004
28 11737,94853 8213,149673 0,9 2351,004
29 8213,149673 5040,830706 0,9 2351,004
30 5040,830706 2185,743635 0,9 2351,004
31 2185,743635 -383,8347285 0,9 2351,004
32 -383,8347285 -2696,455256 0,9 2351,004

And now vs. Dia/Baal 50% DR
HP LW CB Damage LW
0 650000 607905,6225 0,9375 1469,3775
1 607905,6225 568442,1436 0,9375 1469,3775
2 568442,1436 531445,1321 0,9375 1469,3775
3 531445,1321 496760,4339 0,9375 1469,3775
4 496760,4339 464243,5292 0,9375 1469,3775
5 464243,5292 433758,9312 0,9375 1469,3775
6 433758,9312 405179,6205 0,9375 1469,3775
7 405179,6205 378386,5167 0,9375 1469,3775
8 378386,5167 353267,9819 0,9375 1469,3775
9 353267,9819 329719,3555 0,9375 1469,3775
10 329719,3555 307642,5183 0,9375 1469,3775
11 307642,5183 286945,4834 0,9375 1469,3775
12 286945,4834 267542,0132 0,9375 1469,3775
13 267542,0132 249351,2599 0,9375 1469,3775
14 249351,2599 232297,4286 0,9375 1469,3775
15 232297,4286 216309,4618 0,9375 1469,3775
16 216309,4618 201320,743 0,9375 1469,3775
17 201320,743 187268,819 0,9375 1469,3775
18 187268,819 174095,1404 0,9375 1469,3775
19 174095,1404 161744,8166 0,9375 1469,3775
20 161744,8166 150166,388 0,9375 1469,3775
21 150166,388 139311,6113 0,9375 1469,3775
22 139311,6113 129135,2581 0,9375 1469,3775
23 129135,2581 119594,927 0,9375 1469,3775
24 119594,927 110650,8665 0,9375 1469,3775
25 110650,8665 102265,8099 0,9375 1469,3775
26 102265,8099 94404,81925 0,9375 1469,3775
27 94404,81925 87035,14054 0,9375 1469,3775
28 87035,14054 80126,06676 0,9375 1469,3775
29 80126,06676 73648,81009 0,9375 1469,3775
30 73648,81009 67576,38196 0,9375 1469,3775
31 67576,38196 61883,48058 0,9375 1469,3775
32 61883,48058 56546,38555 0,9375 1469,3775
33 56546,38555 51542,85895 0,9375 1469,3775
34 51542,85895 46852,05277 0,9375 1469,3775
35 46852,05277 42454,42197 0,9375 1469,3775
36 42454,42197 38331,6431 0,9375 1469,3775
37 38331,6431 34466,5379 0,9375 1469,3775
38 34466,5379 30843,00178 0,9375 1469,3775
39 30843,00178 27445,93667 0,9375 1469,3775
40 27445,93667 24261,18813 0,9375 1469,3775
41 24261,18813 21275,48637 0,9375 1469,3775
42 21275,48637 18476,39097 0,9375 1469,3775
43 18476,39097 15852,23904 0,9375 1469,3775
44 15852,23904 13392,0966 0,9375 1469,3775
45 13392,0966 11085,71306 0,9375 1469,3775
46 11085,71306 8923,478494 0,9375 1469,3775
47 8923,478494 6896,383588 0,9375 1469,3775
48 6896,383588 4995,982114 0,9375 1469,3775
49 4995,982114 3214,355732 0,9375 1469,3775
50 3214,355732 1544,080999 0,9375 1469,3775
51 1544,080999 -21,80156377 0,9375 1469,3775
52 -21,80156377 -1489,816466 0,9375 1469,3775

This 100% CB LW-Setup needs 135 Hits vs. all 3 bosses. Grief Setup with activated Salvation vs. Meph needs 141 Hits. Grief Setup with active Fana vs Meph also needs 135 Hits.

Grief is everything - but not better then LW.

Accept this Lightman or Ranorn - or all the other guys that prefer Grief!!! Grief can only hit LW-Stats, when u don´t switch to salvation. The one and only Weapon that really can beat LW is Astreons!!!


This post was edited by macros_1102 on Jul 24 2011 06:17am

my calcs are wrong/biased when it comes to grief.
but they're completely correct when referring to asteron's.

please, indulge me by saying how better u can get with a lw setup. arach/soj? wow +2 sk, which is like +20% off-hand ed. you can also use bo with grief, lol? mara's will give u nothing, with hl/grief u reach max fpa vs meph and having the easiness of using salv.

u're making a lot of sense/10
and your understanding of cb is laughable.

stop trying to be overzealous about this thread, more will come, and more will say grief>lw, and my comparison topic was just to confirm that.

Lightman - 40.624 Posts here - but still talking Bu..sh.. here.

U don´t need a Dwarf - u cannot absorb with ur crappy Ress!!! (Basics!)
U don´t need EOS - it offers nothing for u (i u like DR - use Dungo - what offers u a lot more!!!)
U can Use Bo with Grief Setup? LOL - yes u can - but how to prebuff lifetap then? Ah okay - u go somewhere with ur CTA - prebuff BO - and then u switch back to Lifetapwand. Nice guy!!!
+2 Sk = 20% off hand ed? LOL - basics pls guy (we already spoke about basics)
2 more Skills:
34% more damage from Fana
30% more damage from Smite
10-11 more base Damage from HS (depending on Skilllevel)


Sure? U made the same "Worst Case" Calculation with CB. It always can apply faster - but it always can apply later too. U cannot calculate the point when CB applies - only when u have 100%!


One more Point i figured out: while Using Salvation u loose 509% Damage!!!! (509!)

This post was edited by macros_1102 on Jul 24 2011 06:37am

absorb doesn't need full res, learn basics
it's soe, not eos. it offers integer dr and mdr which nullfiies all of the uber's spawnlings. dungo has %dr which is useless, vita that isn't boable, life rep that is lulzy in pvm. learn basics.
if u're that lame as to need bo to survive in ut, just have a cta in ur stash or inventory. big whoop, takes 1 second to bo and replace to lt wand. learn basics.
didn't bother to check how much +2 sks are in reality, but even +20 sks won't redeem for 400 direct dmg loss (which is further boosted by ed%). learn basics.

if u can't comprehend a simple method as worst case scenario, go back to the 2nd grade. don't try to get big in here, i've been here long before you and trolls like you will just come and go. it's the foundation of jsp.

oh and one more thing.

learn basics