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d2jsp Forums > Diablo II > Diablo 2 Discussion > Strategy & Guides > Melee Dominating Vita/es Hybrid Sorc Miniguide > Dtgm Explained With Easy Maths
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Mar 16 2011 08:40am
ill rape that sorc on any of my chars. pm me game.
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Mar 16 2011 09:24am
Quote (Jeebus666 @ Mar 16 2011 02:32pm)
Looks decent, although i dunno how many people play sorcs against just  melee :)

One question thou.. Where did this number come from

"60% ES needs 100%dtgm"

The way I'm seeing it atm ( assuming, is if you have a 1000dmg attack after pvp pen ), it'll do 400 damage to life and 450 to mana ( after telek ), so wouldn't you need (450/400)*100 = 112.5% DTM at 60? ( I agree with the number on 50% btw ).

That of course is a minimum, as if you have damage reduce on the number will increase. This also makes you a bit buggered vs elemental characters as you cant use resistance gear.

Overall I like the concept tho!


lol I bet thats what they said when people made the first BvC :)

Good catch! you are correct sir, it is 112.5%, dunno how I missed that one, but again this is easily made up for by base warmth mana regen and the fact that you dont want full mana with 0 life when dead. Thanks tho!

Also about the res gear, the listed gear is obviously only a suggestion (although the pieces ive suggest give both life and decent res as well as dtgm) and can be improved upon. For example, as tommyvv stated up to 12% dtgm can spawn on jewels and 'ith' gives 15% in armor/shields/helms. So you could easily swap gear and socket items with any needed dtgm.

The miniguide isnt about a specific character build, I'm hoping the use of dtgm will take off in a variety of builds, for example an infinity carrying nova sorc usually has problems with taking melee damage. Its hard to get enough mana to go full ES and almost impossible to get full DR%. By going vita/es hybrid it would give approx 60-70% dr vs melee and almost all points could be dumped in vita! Same with blizz sorcs who have terrible precasts and are short on skill points! Just trying to contribute something new that can be used across builds.

This post was edited by hankspimpin on Mar 16 2011 09:33am
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Mar 16 2011 09:33am
Quote (hankspimpin @ Mar 16 2011 03:24pm)
lol I bet thats what they said when people made the first BvC :)

Good catch! you are correct sir, it is 112.5%, dunno how I missed that one, but again this is easily made up for by base warmth mana regen and the fact that you dont want full mana with 0 life when dead.    Thanks tho!

Also about the res gear, the listed gear is obviously only a suggestion (although the pieces ive suggest give both life and decent res as well as dtgm) and can be improved upon.  For example, as tommyvv stated up to 12% dtgm can spawn on jewels and 'ith' gives 15% in armor/shields/helms.  So you could easily swap gear and socket items with any needed dtgm.


Well the point about the res gear I was making is that i cant see high res being viable on this character as the more resistance you have the more DTM you need to break even, and ideally you do want to break even as the mana on the character will be lowish.
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Mar 16 2011 09:34am
Quote (Jeebus666 @ Mar 16 2011 03:33pm)
Well the point about the res gear I was making is that i cant see high res being viable on this character as the more resistance you have the more DTM you need to break even, and ideally you do want to break even as the mana on the character will be lowish.


Not quite sure what you mean, but dtgm only works vs physical melee (and zerk apparently) res would play no role in the amount of mana returned.
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Mar 16 2011 09:41am
Quote (hankspimpin @ Mar 16 2011 03:34pm)
Not quite sure what you mean, but dtgm only works vs physical melee (and zerk apparently)  res would play no role in the amount of mana returned.


Yeh my post is kinna silly, was gonna edit b4 u quoted

Basically I meant you NEED high res gear for this to be viable vs casters as your es is lowish. But to get this res gear you may need to sacrifice DTM from your other eq meaning you might have to make it up elsewhere

One option would be to use a wizardspike instead of a suicide branch tho

This post was edited by Jeebus666 on Mar 16 2011 09:41am
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Mar 16 2011 09:43am
Quote (Jeebus666 @ 16 Mar 2011 17:33)
Well the point about the res gear I was making is that i cant see high res being viable on this character as the more resistance you have the more DTM you need to break even, and ideally you do want to break even as the mana on the character will be lowish.
Well, since DTM dossent work vs elemental dmg, high res are not a problem in anyway

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Mar 16 2011 09:53am
Quote (Jeebus666 @ Mar 16 2011 03:41pm)
Yeh my post is kinna silly, was gonna edit b4 u quoted

Basically I meant you NEED high res gear for this to be viable vs casters as your es is lowish. But to get this res gear you may need to sacrifice DTM from your other eq meaning you might have to make it up elsewhere

One option would be to use a wizardspike instead of a suicide branch tho


Exactly, there are many possibilities for improvements. I still think hoto would be best but I just suggested cheap gear vs melee only to simplify the SAMPLE build. I still think dtgm will really shine on many other builds including infinity nova, blizz, and my favorite, Vita/es zeal or bear sorcs :)
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Mar 16 2011 10:37am
Quote (summerfun @ Mar 16 2011 04:43pm)
Well, since DTM dossent work vs elemental dmg, high res are not a problem in anyway


DTGM has nothing to do with the kind of damage you take (physical, fire, light, cold, magic, even poison).

The only thing that matters is the source of the damages.

ex :

DTGM works vs Berzerk but not vs Hammers.

DTGM works vs Fire golem but not vs Fireball.

In this build, the high res problem concerning ES and DTGM still exist against zeal-sorc, auradins ...
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Mar 16 2011 01:09pm
so whats the point of loosing 900 life and 1500 dmg pr attack, instead of go full vita or full es?
here you go with 20 to telkinesis like and es build, so you will sacrefice some skills there.
just go pure vita imo with best possible dr, and max res, wouldn't that be almost the same?
Pls gife me serious answer, since i really like the idea of this build, but not 100 get it yet
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Mar 16 2011 01:33pm
Quote (Dangler @ Mar 16 2011 09:09am)
so whats the point of loosing 900 life and 1500 dmg pr attack, instead of go full vita or full es?
here you go with 20 to telkinesis like and es build, so you will sacrefice some skills there.
just go pure vita imo with best possible dr, and max res, wouldn't that be almost the same?
Pls gife me serious answer, since i really like the idea of this build, but not 100 get it yet


The idea is to help sorcs against some of their toughest matchups. Barbs and smiters. His calculations show why this is theoretically better than full vita with max DR. This is mostly theory crafting though, but it wouldn't be expensive to try. Najs armor and Nightsmoke are the only items needed really.
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