Isn't the breakpoint 37? No big deal, just pointing it out.




I couldn't agree more concerning Highlords, however I wouldn't consider any rare on a BvB either. The amulet choice is limited to Highlords and Angelic on pretty much any kind of melee Barb.

I still really enjoyed reading it and hope to see more guides from you soon.

You raise a lot of points so I'll do my best to answer all of them

I had Cleglaws in my stash originally but I never really used it that much as I don't like throwing verse characters that can run up and beat you down, i.e. a Smiter as you bring up.
By replacing Trangs with Cleglaws you need to make up 20% FCR, in which scenario you have to remove 2x Ravenfrosts to equip the 2x FCR rings. This is problematic mainly for the reason that you've just lost Can Not Be Frozen and if this said Smiter has exile or cold damage, we're pretty much screwed as an IAS based character.

Against ES sorcs, yes, Knock Back is amazing, and against Fire/ Lightning sorcs you will want to switch out Ravens for FCR rings, but Leap will take care of the job just as well. With 20+ points into Leap you'll have over a screen radius of KB, thus allowing you to trap them against walls or puddles allowing for easy picking off; or knocking them back and just telestomping them. It comes down to a manner of playstyle I guess, but one should be aware that with every gear swap you lose something as well as gain something.

About Angelics verse Hsarus--
Firstly, there is no need for Verdungoes Crown of Ages (even with the lowest DR roll of 10, plus 2x Bers, = 26 DR) + Enigma (8 DR) will cover you with 34% - 39% DR, thus allowing you to wear Arachnid's Mesh who's +1 skill = Boable life, more res (nat res), more FRW (increased speed), more damage (masteries + WW + Double Throw/ Double Swing), etc.

Well here's the simpliest breakdown of Angelics verse Hsarus:
Angelics gives you slightly more life and AR but Hsarus allows you to wear Highlords, which not only affects your throwing damage but your WW damage as well.

I would not advise Angelics and Hsarus as that is overkill on AR that really "is not" needed and it would also cripple the build.
Amulet and 1x ring slot = Angelics; boots and belt = Hsarus.
That means that using Trangs gloves + a FCR ring will only give you 30 FCR, not enough to catch or compete with a good hammerdin.

About glitching--
2x 20 dex Ravenfrosts are mandatory as that save you points in dexterity which can then be spent in vitality. When switching Ravenfrosts out you should have 30 dex from your FCR rings, or atleast somewhere in the high twenties (you don't want to sacrifice the dex on these) so the dex lose ratio is still the same: Ravenfrosts 40 - Angelics/ Ravenfrosts 30 verse Ravenfrosts 40 - FCR rings 30

Kind of confused on your math where you say 14x- 600, where are these numbers from? You lost me



True, Frenzy does add an amazing speed boost to throwing/ running/ attacking, but it requires monsters. If the game is clear this skill is pretty much void because I can garuntee using Frenzy on an opponent will get you naked.
If you find the need to run up to someone and dent their face, I highly suggest switching to Beastz/ Griefz and Berserk them. Berserk does incredibly damage and against the right opponents can pulverize atleast a third of their life if not more.

I don't find Battlecry worth it because you're giving up an opportunity to attack (this is a spell where you have to be right on the guy) to do an ability that does a status change, all the while leaving you open for about a solid second. More than enough for a decent/ good player to get a lock and hit you.
Taunt is purely up to the player, it's very good for chain locking. I like unsummon as my chainlock skill, but most of the time (if I didn't lock them) I would just anticate where they were going and hit them there. It's a 1 point skill, so if you feel the need to get it, go for it.




Bah, the breakpoint is now 38
Yeah my mistake, but even so, you'll always be hitting 40 FCR with Trangs, Arachnid's, and FCR rings so there's no need to worry about the bp. But yes, typo

Highlords is definatly the superior choice of amulets. Originally I played with Angelics and once I figured out a way to incorporate HLs while maintaining 37 FCR the duels were much, much easier.
If you enjoyed this guide, take a peek at my Shaman guide that's much more indepth so grab a snack and read

err, the knockback from clegs is mostly for whirlwind, not really for double throw. Its what can keep an ES sorc chained in your attacks- especially if their FHR isn't great, which many neglect due to being ES. Against smiters- it keeps them out of range.
the idea being, if you're in a long teleport chase, they can sometimes win by just outtanking you one hit at a time- trading one hit and teleporting out, and without FHR you can't interrupt their cast. But with clegs, one whirlwind on a sorc can keep them in place for more hits

verdungos is worth having around to hit 50% dr. I feel its worth it mostly against windies, but against smiters occasionally if they're particularly good or bm or w/e
arachs is always the main belt, but keeping tgods & dungos on hand is always nice for swapping out. Most people mistake it as the main belt- that is very wrong- but its worth having


14x - 600 is the difference in AR between angelics & hsarus.
its:

12x level + 12x level on angelics + 10 dexterity (50)
250 + 250 + 10x level on hsarus + 30 dexterity on ravens (150)

so the difference is 24x - 10x + 50 - 650 = 14x - 600



but actually I was wrong, the 15 dex ravens are only necessary if you have dex on boots or wear arreats- and coa is better. Thats because you need to have 112 dex with angelics and 151 or less with ravens
otherwise you can't have them be invisible with both


but i think battle cry is worth it. Its used sparingly- very rarely- but is still better than +2 leap or 16% throw damage. Its important vs hammerdins I figure. As you run south you can cast one as they try to telestomp you, and it will hit them
not worth it in most other duels, but the -% defense is a huge effect there. Taunt has no PvP advantage over unsummon whatsoever, it just looks and sounds cool

Oh for Whirlwind? Personally I don't like KB for WW
Hopefully with ES sorcs, and depending on your skill/ damage/ their life and mana, you shouldn't need more than a few whirls, esp with atleast 1x poison small charm. I like Leap better because I find it more controllable; sometimes if you wear Cleglaws and hit someone you can knock them out of your path allowing them to escape, whereas with Leap you know that the opponent will be going backwards in a straight line thus making blind (off screen) teleports much easier to land.

For Verdungoes you'd have to have a base 10 or 11 DR% Crown of Ages to hit 49%- 50% DR.
11% (base) + 16% (Ber Ber) + 8% (Enigma) +15% (Verdungoes) = 50%
Well actually... you'd have to cater to a very specific CoA and Verdungoes to achieve to exactly 50% and you'd have to combo Trangs + 2x FCR rings to hit the breakpoint. There are very few matches in which I'd be willing to lose CNB; i.e. Fireball sorcs and Hammerdins are the first that come to mind. Other classes where 50% would come in handy: Smiters (Exile or charms) and Ele druids (Hurricane), all have some sort of cold damage that imo would screw you over.

It's much safer, and easier, to just scrap dungoes in the matchups unless you have a viable setup where Verdungoes doesn't impede the build?

I would never use two Angelics rings for the following two reasons:
-- AR is decieving, as is this is a BvC character 6k-8k will do the job more often than not
-- The dexterity bonus from Angelics does not stack (to my knowledge, I was more sure on this a few months ago when I did my testing) so you're looking at 20 dex (angelics) verse 40 dex from Ravenfrosts

Also- I wouldn't use Arreats unless this was a welfare character and you couldn't afford a Crown of Ages because 8% DR won't save you from anything and Arreats has the same resistances as CoA so overall, Crown of Ages is a better helm to be using in a Verse All setting.

About Battle Cry-- yeah, I guess in that scenario it COULD concievable benefit you while not leaving you wide open. But not every Hammerdin stomps and a lot of them will try and box you in or hit you with some invis hammers while you aren't paying attention.
If you're anticipating a stomp as you're running South a nice diagonal South-West WW could clip them and do the job nicely, hopefully giving you time to gather yourself for an offensive manuever

why are you using ber/ber coa on a brawler?
you need 15% ias on your helm to hit the breakpoint with highlords on. Should use a ber + 40/15 in there, or even 15/15.

ithe dexterity bonuse from angelics does indeed stack, so it really is 700~ AR over hsarus. But again- this is for duels against characters with 50-60k defense.

What? Items granting IAS besides weapons don't affect Whirlwind speed; unless you're talking about trying to counter slow or throwing speed?

Taken from Battle.net [http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/skills/barbarian-combatskills.shtml]:


Even with Angelics Ring/ Ring/ Amulet, we're still only looking at 20 dexterity compared to two Ravenfrosts 40, two FCR rings 30, or even Angelics Ring/ Angelics Amulet/ Ravenfrost combo 30.
Again, you want to spend as minimal points in dexterity as possible and the best way to go about that is through the setup where you have the least amount of dexterity- using 2x FCR rings

Characters with 50-60k I'd imagine would be more GM Melee oriented, i.e. zealots and conc barbs in which case I'd still go with Hsarus over Angelics because the added DS from Highlords is part of the two step dance we're doing on a Brawler, the first part being Amp Damage

like you said, throwing is just for proc'ing amp so why are you maxing throw mastery over leap? in my opinion it would be better for teams and 1v1s and controlling your opponent to max leap prior to ANY other skill. The throw mastery I assume will not add a huge boost of dmg or a huge boost in ar... which isnt necessarily needed.
I do not know much about this part of game mechanics... if they block, will amp go off? if you miss but a hitcheck? or is it only when you physically get a hit?

Amp can be procced in a few ways:
1.) being if you hit someone, damage them, Amp has the ability to be set off there
2.) if you hit a summon, i.e. Clay Golem or Oak Sage (or Fallen), Amp can proc and the AoE will contain the opponent
3.) if you hit someone but they block it damage will not be taken but the CTC Amp will be rolled; I've seen this occure on Javazons the majority of the time

About Throw Mastery--
I would definatly advise maxing it as it increases your Attack Rating, allowing you to make contact with the enemy. Hitting people by throwing weapons is difficult enough in the beginning, and it also adds some damage and a chance for Critical Strike while throwing. Most importantly though, is the AR. Unlike other line-of-sight spells when you are throwing you can; miss (you "hit" them, but the attack didn't make contact), throw in the wrong direction, get blocked, the enemy can dodge, or make contact.

As Double Throw doesn't come with any AR modifiers, the AR would be incredibly low without Mastery

But, there are some lee-way with points as this build does not finish at a high level.
Without maxing Leap or Throwing Mastery and taking into consideration prerequisites we have 74 skill points to use. If you felt strongly enough, you could max Leap for another 20 (94 total) and with the remaining points stat Throwing Mastery, but imo it's much more beneficial to do it the other way around

And ofc it doesn't matter the order of the skills you max- hopefully this character would be atleast level 90, maybe more, before the real PvP started

were is darkcobra you would think he would have a few things to say about this..

did he finaly quit?

^^

I hope not, jsp won't be the same without Trollbra

I did forward this to him though, he's been offline for 23 hours at this time