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Feb 7 2010 02:11pm
Quote (PG_Lord @ Feb 7 2010 02:07pm)
1st thing i dont like about this guide is that it doesnt have any "in-depth" info...
aka, fhr bp etc etc...
2nd thing i dont like is dueling strats...
why?
because 90% of dueling strats are : run and shoot or run and cast LF...

thats just mho...


Ok i'll put the bp's

and have u ever dueled on a bowzon? thats how i approach duels with those chars. tell me ur strategy please


Quote (Beirut @ Feb 7 2010 02:29pm)
he probably assumed if you were going to spend this much on a zva or zvz that you knew, and what dueling strats are you hoping to see? stand in place and pray? zons run and shoot its what they do


yep


Quote (fourwheelers71121 @ Feb 7 2010 02:32pm)
Nice guide, the only thing I think you should of included iswhy you have atleast 95 Ias on each setup to reach the fastest Bp, orwhyyou have over 140 FRW so you can desynch.


will do


Quote (Pari @ Feb 7 2010 02:19pm)
huge trash


mad cuz bad on bowa

This post was edited by Arelax on Feb 7 2010 02:38pm
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Feb 7 2010 02:25pm
Quote (Arelax @ 7 Feb 2010 21:11)
Ok i'll put the bp's

and have u ever dueled on a bowzon? apparently not.




yep




will do




mad cuz bad on bowa


dunno how serious i should take you
your guide is pretty bad and your strategies are laughable
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Feb 7 2010 02:39pm
Quote (Pari @ Feb 7 2010 03:25pm)
dunno how serious i should take you
your guide is pretty bad and your strategies are laughable


idk how serious i should take you

no constructive criticism, just "youre guide is bad"

lmk what u wuld change buddy, or we can duel?
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Feb 7 2010 03:23pm
*sigh*

so, in case you dont want to see the replay "COME DUEL ME AND ILL PEW PEW YOU!!!!11", we shouldn't state our opinion on how you can get your guide better...

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=38476029&f=87 --> this (and check the "old thread" link) is example of great, in-depth guide...

ofc, that is pvm guide, so you wont write about monsters etc...

BUT, you could write something more about eq, bps (u said ull add that, thats ok), why to use certain eq, what things do you want to accomplish, and why is that the best way you can go when building your zon, and as i said before, a bit more in-depth dueling strats would be great addition to your guide...

and, yes, i did play bowa, bla bla bla, no need for flaming and shit like that...


but, lets make an example what i thought about strats:

-blizz soso: run away from blizzard, and shoot ga at her...

ok, thats what anyone with even half of brain could get by himself...

get a bit more info on that, you sure do know A LOT more about dueling based on your personal experience, and by that i mean smth like:

-blizz soso: ok, most of blizz soso have 2 types of gameplay style... #1 defwhore, but as u are a ranged attacker, that will not be an option, so usually people will try to tele around, and ofc, catch u into their blizz... but, to avoid that, you should try to stay at least 1 screen away, bla bla bla bla bla (this was the most retarded example i could think in 2 sec, but i hope u know what i mean)...

so, really, dont think of this post as a flame, or saying u dont know shit bout zons and ur guide sux, but try to share more knowledge with the rest of people (and remember that some people that will read your guide never played zon, at least not in competitive way ;) )

hope this will help a bit lol cause this used few mins of my "precious" time xD
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Feb 7 2010 03:56pm
Quote (PG_Lord @ Feb 7 2010 04:23pm)
*sigh*

so, in case you dont want to see the replay "COME DUEL ME AND ILL PEW PEW YOU!!!!11", we shouldn't state our opinion on how you can get your guide better...

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=38476029&f=87  --> this (and check the "old thread" link) is example of great, in-depth guide...

ofc, that is pvm guide, so you wont write about monsters etc...

BUT, you could write something more about eq, bps (u said ull add that, thats ok), why to use certain eq, what things do you want to accomplish, and why is that the best way you can go when building your zon, and as i said before, a bit more in-depth dueling strats would be great addition to your guide...

and, yes, i did play bowa, bla bla bla, no need for flaming and shit like that...


but, lets make an example what i thought about strats:

-blizz soso: run away from blizzard, and shoot ga at her...

ok, thats what anyone with even half of brain could get by himself...

get a bit more info on that, you sure do know A LOT more about dueling based on your personal experience, and by that i mean smth like:

-blizz soso: ok, most of blizz soso have 2 types of gameplay style... #1 defwhore, but as u are a ranged attacker, that will not be an option, so usually people will try to tele around, and ofc, catch u into their blizz... but, to avoid that, you should try to stay at least 1 screen away, bla bla bla bla bla (this was the most retarded example i could think in 2 sec, but i hope u know what i mean)...

so, really, dont think of this post as a flame, or saying u dont know shit bout zons and ur guide sux, but try to share more knowledge with the rest of people (and remember that some people that will read your guide never played zon, at least not in competitive way ;) )

hope this will help a bit lol cause this used few mins of my "precious" time xD


i wasnt rude to you, i appreciate your criticism. ive been editing it for a little while now, and i will make a new one with more in depth information.

i can put a few more tips in some strategy, but for the most part i explained the basic strategy. maybe i should put a disclaimer on the top that this guide isnt for complete noobs but ppl with some experience.

This post was edited by Arelax on Feb 7 2010 03:56pm
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Feb 7 2010 04:00pm
Quote (Arelax @ 7 Feb 2010 22:56)
maybe i should put a disclaimer on the top that this guide isnt for complete noobs but ppl with some experience.

Now, that would be neat for a change.
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Feb 7 2010 04:12pm
Revisions so far:




Crits Ultimate ZvA/ZvZ Bowzon Guide

To start, I’d like to say that I’ve played this game on/off for a very long time and I have always played bowzons. I’ve dueled a lot of pubs and worked my way up the ZvZ ladder on D2jsp to rank #1, which I’ve held javascript:ebmc(this,'I')for a long time vs. some very good opponents. I have tried countless different builds and ideas, and I am still testing new ones, but in my opinion, this is the best ZvA/ZvZ build. This zon is capable of owning ZvA and ZvZ, only some gear needs to be switched while the inventory can remain the same. Good luck.



Breakpoints:
You want to try to hit these breakpoints with both ZvA and ZvZ setups:

FRW – you must be very fast and elusive, a zon cannot tank very much and many other character overpower her so you must be able to move fast. Zons use a mix of frw and life sc’s, so when you break it down 3frw = 20 life. A good balance of life/frw is the most crucial aspect of the zon. Shoot for 180 ZvA and 150 ZvZ.

Max block – Have max block with Titans/Stormshield out

Res – Res is important, and increases the zons survivability. Having at least 80@res ZvA is a must. For ZvZ, you only need light res to defend against lightning bolt and zons dont do much elemental damage.

0 FHR – Dodge/evade/avoid are locked at 8 frames. I have never seen the need for fhr, but some people try to get the 20fhr BP in ZvA. If you want to do this I recommend swapping 4x 20/5’s or 4x 5/5’s.

35+ DR – Damage reduced is very important. In ZvA your only source of DR is your stormshield (35% DR) so it’s important to never get hit with bow out by melee chars.

95ias – Faith Grand Matron Bow requires 95ias to hit the 7fpa breakpoint. 90ias is the breakpoint for jav throws aka Light Bolt/Fury, so meeting this breakpoint helps you both with bow and javs.
Other bow 7fpa ias breakpoints:
Diamond Bow – 65 ias
Matriarchal bow – 45ias


Skills:
20 guided
5 multi
1 strafe
20 avoid
20 critical strike
18 evade
7 dodge
1 penetrate
1 pierce
1 jab
1 light bolt
1 fury
Rest: 1 to Decoy/Valk or Dodge (Up to you) or Dodge


Stats:
put enough strength to wear gear, enough dex for max block with titans/stormshield on switch, and rest in vita



Inventory:
I have 80@res(without anya Q) and 180frw(with titans out)
so my inventory is:
10x 3/5
9x 20/5
12x 3/3/20
6x 3/20/20
torch + anni
(Any combination of the sc's that gives you 180frw/80@res will work)
You should end up with around 2k life ZvA, 2.2k ZvZ


ZvA

Goals:
180frw
2k+ life
80@ res (no anya Q’s)
Max Block
35% DR with shield out
95ias for Faith GMB


Gear

Armor: Archon Plate Fortitude
-Res, Chilling armor, life, Defense, 5% max light res, and 300 Enhanced damage make this armor a must.

Primary Weapon: Faith GMB
-Max damage and the 3bow/xbow will help give you more multi arrows.

Weapon Switch: Eth upped titans
-Eth and Upped for max phys Damage. Try to get High Enhanced Damage. Fury does little light damage but very high Phys damage. Light bolt is very nice vs. characters with low light res.

Shield: Stormshield with 15@ res/-15req jewel
-35%DR/Easily attainable MB/Defense/Res make this shield the best. 15@res/-15req jewel is best because you need the res and the -15req drops the strength required to 133, saving you 23 str = 69life.

Boots: war travs
-15-25 dmg turns into nearly 200 – 350 damage after ED bonuses. 10str/10vit is 20stats = 60life, and def is higher than rare boots. 25frw is good too.

Gloves: 20ias/knock back gloves
-Knockback is a must in ZvA and 20 ias is a must to hit he 95ias bp. Bonuses, in order of importance: dex/2pass/rep life/res/str
-You don’t need stats so much, because when you switch to your ZvZ gear, your rare gloves will add the stats you lose from taking off nos coil belt(15str). So any str on your ZvA gloves is pointless. Dex is the best because you will have more dex on your ZvZ switch. When you put in dex for max block, you’ll need less, which basically turn into life.

Belt: Nosferatu’s Coil belt
-You need 10ias for the 95ias breakpoint. The 10% slow helps a lot and the 15str = 45 life. The only other 10ias belt in the game is goldwrap, which is obviously inferior to nos coil.

Helm: 30frw/45ias/120ed helm
-45ias on your helm is a must to reach the 95ias breakpoint. 120ed adds a lot of damage and beats out using 15ias/15res jewels because the 120ed will benefit you more. It works like this – if you used 15ias/15res jewels, then you can replace 3x 20/5 sc’s with 3x 3max/20ar/20life sc’s. So its basically 9max/60ar vs. 120ed. I’d go with the ED.

Amulet: Cats Eye amulet
-20ias is a must to reach the 95ias breakpoint, so your only options are cast eye or highlords. For ZvA, frw is more important because you need to escape from desynching pallys and teleporters, plus you need the 25 dex for max block.

Ring 1: Ravenfrost
-20 dex/250ar/Cannot be frozen/Cold damage/20 cold Absorb. This ring is a must for almost any character, especially Bowzons.

Ring 2: 20strength/15dex Ring
- 35 stats = 105 life. Try to get as close to 20/15 as possible, but bonuses are important too. Bonuses, in order of importance: Life, Life Replenish, Attack Rating, min or max damage, Resist, etc.


ZvZ
Goals:
150frw
2.2k+ life
100+_ Light Res
Max Block
50% DR with shield out
95ias for Faith GMB
High passives: 55 Dodge / 70 Avoid / 60 Evade / 74 Critical Strike
22 life Rep (USEAST Ladder ZvZ Ladder maximum)


Gear

Armor: 160/60/100 life armor
-Fort is BM in ZvZ because someone spawning chilling armor gives them an unfair advantage. So the next best option is a 160-60-100 life armor. Using a light armor is a must, these include: Dusk Shroud/Wyrmhide/Scarab Husk/Wire Fleece/Great Hauberk/Archon Plate. (As well as their un-upped forms)
60ias helps you reach ias breakpoint easy, 160ed is a nice boost to damage, and the 100life is just icing on the cake.
Archon plates are shoppable, so Whyrmhide, Wire fleece, Scarab husk and Dusk Shroud add sex factor.

Primary Weapon: Faith GMB
-Same reason as ZvA, the high dmg, potential for high dmg shots + critical/deadly strike. 3 bow skills helps multi/ga too.
Other option is a Diamond bow, the minimum damage is nice, but the avg damage is still far lower than the Faith GMB.

Secondary Weapon: Eth upped titans
-30frw/20str/20dex/high phys damage. Same reason as ZvA, these javs are a must.

Shield: Stormshield with 30ed/8dex/-15req jewel
-Same reasons as ZvA, this shield is amazing. Socket it with a 30ed/8dex/-15req jewel to keep the strength requirement at 133, 30ed adds nice phys dmg, and 8 dex helps you reach max block easier. You don’t need the res because ZvZ duels are held in nightmare difficulty and plus Zons don’t do any elemental damage except with lightning bolt. You’ll be using a highlords amulet which gives you 35light res stack anyways.

Boots: War Travs
-Same reasons as ZvA, these boots really cant be beat, and if you use them for both ZvZ and ZvA, then you can build around the 10str, which literally turns those 10 points into 10vita=30life.

Gloves: 2pass/20ias/str/dex
-Knockback is not necessary for ZvZ, it helps a little and use it if you like, but for the most part it doesn’t do much since you probably wont be getting consecutive hits on your opponent. Using rare gloves makes it easier/cheaper to find rare gloves with high stats.
2 passives is a must so you can reach the passive breakpoints, particularly 70avoid/74 critical strike.
20ias is a must for the ias breakpoint
Str/dex – 15strength would be ideal so it matches the 15 strength you lose from removing Nos Coil belt, but get as hgi has you can. Dex is the next most important part and helps you reach max block easier, the less dex u need to add more max block = more life.

Belt: Verdungos belt
-10% slow from Nos Coil is BM, so you can’t use it, but Dungos is much better anyways. 40vit = 120life, 15%DR helps you reach 50% DR with shield out, and 13rep life helps you reach the 22 life rep limit.

Helm: 2zon/30frw/2os helm socketed with 2x 9dex Jewels
-2 Zon is a must to reach the passives we want. 30frw helps your survivability and is almost a must since you’ll be losing 30frw when you replace Cats Eye. Being able to run fast helps you move in quick and escape namelock Ga’s and multi.
Socketing with 9dex jewels is best because 9dex helps you reach max block as well as adds damage. I recommend using 2x 40ed/9dex jewels, but there are much nicer rare jewels out there. Ex: 26ed/18minum dmg/9dex. Going with a rare jewel is the best option, but make sure it had at least 9dex and Enhanced damage.

Amulet: Highlords Wrath amulet
-1 skill is a must to reach the passives we want. 20ias is a must. 35 light res helps a lot vs. lightning bolt and negates the need to add 11light res sc’s.
34% DS helps, but critical strike and Deadly strike do not stack directly. It works like this, during an attack, either critical strike or deadly strike will trigger, not both (so it is impossible to get 4x dmg). If the game tries for critical strike first, and it fails, then the game will try for deadly strike (order doesn’t matter). So in our case: 74% Critical strike + 34% Deadly strike = 82% Chance to do double damage.

Ring 1: Ravenfrost
-Cannot be frozen, ar, dex, dmg, it’s a must.

Ring 2: 20strength/15dex Ring
- 35 stats = 105 life. Try to get as close to 20/15 as possible, but bonuses are important too. Bonuses, in order of importance: Life, Life Replenish, Attack Rating, min or max damage, Resist, etc.
This is basically the same as ZvA, but I would try to get 9 life rep, which when combined with 13life rep from dungos gives you the 22 life rep maximum (USEAST Ladder ZvZ Ladder rule)
If you don’t get the life rep here, you might want to get life rep on your gloves or from jewels in your help. Ex: 28ed/9str/9dex/3life rep jewel – (common dupe)



ZvZ/ZvA

Stash Gear (optional): 20sorb whisp, Pvm ring with mana leech, hotspurs, kiras(15ias/30cold res jeweld), Tgods, diamond or matriarchal faith if you want to hit max ias with fort/sorb gear.

Other gear: Diamond Bow Faith - Some people like diamond bow faith, personally I think GMB > Diamond because of the chance to do high dmg + crit strike, and the fact that gmb does more avg damage than diamond.
CTA – If you have 2k life, then a cta’s bo will only give you maybe 800 life, imo having titans/storrmshield to survive melee chars, fury, and block other attacks is much better than the 800 extra life. You could also put a CTA in a cube in your inventory and swap it with your titans for BO prebuffs. I personally don't like to do this, but it is an option. Be sure that other players agree to prebuffs before the duel too or this could be BM.


Strategy:

General: You always want to run with your shield out, and try to never get hit with your bow out!
Most FRW chars are very easy for you because you run faster than them, just run to keep distance and shoot ga/multi/fury. Except desynching pallys.
When possible always try to namelock your opponent. Click their name with right click and hold it, so you can force all arrows to go after them even if they’re off screen. This requires guided arrow to be on right click and multi on left. I highly recommend switching your keys to this.
A Pro trick - Fury is on right click, namelock fury an opponent. when they run, hit a hotkey for the skill "unsummon" then hit "w" to switch weapons and keep your opponent on namelock with gas now coming at them.

Amazons (Javazons) - Frw Javas are easy, just run and shoot ga/multi/fury til they die
Tele javas are really hard, try to spawn chilling armor and don’t sit still long. Run and shoot ga/multi/fury
Bowzons(ZvZ) - you'll have to practice alot, everyone has a different style and skills. Develop good all around ZvA skill.
(Bowzons –ZvA)For pub bowzons, use multi up close, ga from far, and rush them with javs and fury them to death, most bowas are dumb and will keep shooting bow at you while you fury them.
(Plague zon)- Do not get poisoned and you should be good, just ga/multi/fury

Assassin (Trap) - When you're namelocked, run and hit "w" fast to wsg(weapon switch glitch) get off their screen and off their namelock, then shoot ga's/multi from far and fury when they get close to you. repeat as necessary
(Assassin Whirlwind) - Shoot ga/multi from far, and while they're ww'ing around you keep on the move to avoid getting hit and just keep furying them. If you get hit with your bow out, you’re done.

Barbs (WW - FRW) - you better ez them. Just run to keep some distance and shoot ga, but mainly fury.
(ww - tele) - These are a little harder. NEVER get WW'd with your bow out. Ga from far, and fury when they get close. When they start ww'ing, run around so its hard for them to get you and constantly fury them. It will take some time, but you can win.

Druid (Windy) - These are really hard. Multi from far to kill their spawns. When they get close I like to strafe to kill oak and other spawns. Then pull out javs and fury them. Stay on the run and keep some distance. If they get on top of you then you have to move fast.
(Druid Melee) - these are ez. Run and ga/multi/fury

Necro (Bone spear/spirit) - these guys are very hard too. I multi from far and strafe up close to kill golem and their bone armor. From there you want to keep on the run and ga them. Mix in some furys too.
(Poison nova) - these are easy, you'll dodge the poison nova few times at which point you need to namelock the necro and ga them.

Sorc (Fire/light) – Run around and Ga/multi them. These aren’t too hard. Use hotspurs/whisp if necessary
(Sorc Cold) - Maxblock blizz sorc's are very hard. For good cold res you need a kiras(w/ 15ias/30cold res) and 2x ravens for good protection. I dont like to switch gear so I just take my chances and run ga/mutli from far. Don’t sit still if you think you're in their blizz range.

Paladin (Smiter/Charger) - These are hard, just run, when you get some distance, turn and get off as many furys as possible. You can ga too, but dont stand still too long because they will desynch and kill you before you see them.
(Hammerdin) - these are ez. Just keep on the run. They’ll try to tele on you and hammer you quick, anticipate when theyre going to tele on you and move right when they get there or before, and get off as many ga's as u can. Repeat
(FOH) - If they’re strictly FoH, then stand there and ga/fury them, depending on distance. You will dodge a bunch of FOHs and your res/life is good enough to take a few hits. You should out-tank them and win.
(Auradin) - some are just ridiculous, but for the most part, run and try not to get conviction aura'd. Shoot gas or furys and try to tank them.


I cannot take full credit for this build, I have read many other builds and received many ideas from many friends along the way, just to name a few @JSP's: LOLRagezzz, Heid, Mew, Irmule, SwanoW, Jajaboo-Po, bvdlord and others

pm me for any questions or opinions. Arelax @ D2JSP@ D2JSP
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Feb 7 2010 04:29pm
Quote (Arelax @ 7 Feb 2010 21:39)
idk how serious i should take you

no constructive criticism, just "youre guide is bad"

lmk what u wuld change buddy, or we can duel?


would take too long, not worth it
so many flaws
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Feb 7 2010 04:32pm
Try a 30 frw/3os circlet with 3x 30 cold res/15 ias jewels vs cold sorcs over kiras.
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Feb 7 2010 04:32pm
thats a bit more like it :)
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