well claiming that something is new only because it is not used due to the fact that other items are superior.. where is the innovation in that.
Well, it is an old guide, read the tital, it is a repost. It is new based on the fact that no1 would ever try using a Phoenix GMB bowazon.
Innovation is based on actually thinking first, testing it, seeing that it works, if it does not work, do not post or change items. I have done that.
Also, there are many guides about bowazons, if you look on PvM forum, stickies, whatever, but, NONE of them does it like this, even using Enigma
on a Bowazon is not that new.

2. easy + cheap does not equal high end+ cow king boots only drop in one area while wt`s can drop in several areas that are visited far more often than cows, so i`d also argue about the price here....
25 dex versus 20 average damage and 10 vita and 10 str
OMFG, you have TUNNEL VISION, I do not give care about WT's being better, I KNOW THEY ARE, but I chose Cow Kings because I wanted the most DEXTERITY FOR ATTACK RATING, or did you miss that point, can you not realise that SOMETIMES you do not have to follow the norm and still make a GOOD BUILD.

frw--> circlet ^^
FRW CIRCLET, by itself is not greater, Jewellers mod is good, then I suppose you want to add in 3x 40/15's?, I KNOW THAT THESE ARE ALSO DAMN GOOD, but not necessary UNLESS you want to PvP with other upmarket items. Shit if you want to state pvp items, go do it in a pvp guide.

you don´t understand me with leaching , do you... how do you get to lvl 80......
OMFG, you ever game, i did not leech or have to leech with this build, I made this the proper way.
Got myself to level 6, did trist runs, ran all the way to Andy doing quests, killed andy, went through ACT2, did tombs etc.
I normally start with BOWAZONS when new ladder starts, and I do it the old fashion way, but, I make up my mind first
what skills I want, and only use the right skills. THE only chars i get rushed to A5 are sorc/pally/barb, then chaos (if i have too) or Uber.

teleport is not needed if we play a bowzon, especially one with frw...
we do areas like the cs and rof.. which consist of fixed parts that are only mixed.. taking one look at them shows you the way without relying ton teleport, but hey if you really need teleport, use charges... enables you to choose stronger armors while still maintaining more safety .
HMMM, my bowazons do Andy, Countess, Pits, Cows, Summoner, Meph, Council, Diablo, River, Shenk, Eldritch, Pindle, Nith and Baal, I need tele, that is how good she was, and being in SC, who cared about dying.

cb: normally takes away 25% monsterlife
12,5% in ranged combat
and now comes the monster`s physres- so effectively maybe 6% are being taken away
now looking at the 20 avdam and our off weapon ed... we do more damage with wt`s than with gores in 99,999999999999999999999999999999% of the cases
Okay, you have your methods to work out CB, i have mine, and no matter who is incorrect, it is still damage, regardless, and as I stated b4, you have TUNNEL VISION going on about WT's.


we are now in 1.12 so treachery is avialable.. if you are not able to update your guide properly.....
by the way there are ias jewels and several armors with 3 socks............. and they are around since 1.07
Are you truly that set on Treachery?, You want to prove a point, but, even you know for a fact that ebugged FORT is way better than ebugged TREACHERY, and why should i DEGRADE my guide with the worse out of the two? BESIDES THE PRICE or how easy it is to make Treacery, it was not the idea.

maybe next time you check things like ga, ma or fa and what they do
you could also have a look at inner sight or your merc setup
OMFG you are a total pothead, if you read, I posted GA for the PvP'ers, as for the Fire Arrow, that is just a waste for a Frostmaiden build (if I want fire damage, i would just get enchanted), as for Magic Arrow, 1 Base point already with all the +skill items make it a 1 point wonder. NOW as for the Inner Sight, the Rogue automatically has the skill, also another point, again Inner Sight is a Pre Req and the +skill items make it good. Shit what are you on?????

natalya has str+dex+resis which equal more ed than skills+ free socket for ias.. it beats the giant skull on any day of the week
I am totally aware of only 2 mods on circs but hey.. this thing has one more socket, which means either more speed--> other choices in eq or more ed than you`d gain from skills
OMFG, read will you, can you understand that there ARE 3 BOWAZON GUIDES LISTED???????, have you checked out Concept 2.0????, you have only read 1.0, have you read the Windforce guide?????
OMFG how about reading the guide, look with your eyes, do not just assume that it is 1 setup.

your bowie can take out bnosses from longer rangfe than their aura
2. rares offer leach,stats,resis,ar--> free space in inventory and equipoment--> more ar/damage possible than from using 2 ravens
OHH man a live, I know you can kill even off screen with Strafe. HOW ABOUT sticking your rares where the sun never shines, DO YOU KNOW what the odds are for getting the RAREs that I would need???, NO YOU DON'T otherwise you would not go on about them. 2X RAVENS, the Added Attack rating combined with the Dexterity are good, and whether a person can kill off screen or not, you still have the chance to tele into cold damaging monsters.

there is nothing I could care less abouzt than life on a decent glasscannon build
by the way.. the cta slot gives you only +2 valk--> same thing from cliffkiller or lycander, and withg those we have even some other strong aspects given..
SINCE you have not read the guide, there is no point in argueing about old school items, if I wanted to make a bowazon with cliffkiller, i would look in the Strategy & Guides ARCHIVES on old guides.
When I game HC, I like Lycanders alot, it is the best Unique bowazons weapon (depending on build, also Witchwild is good shael'ed for ias, SkyStrike is damn nice too)
What you mentioned in the section above was pointless, there is no such thing as a decent glasscannon build, just the person controlling the build.

the three levels less psnet in valk and put into decoy give that valk more survivability than the valk itself but I ain`t telling oyu such simple things right now
If you have to add points to DECOY to give your VALK life, then you have built your ZON wrong. PURE AND SIMPLE. You think you are telling some noob where he/she is wrong and stating what you think is simple PvM lore, well sorry to burst your EGO, but a good build does not rely on the valk to stand there and tank, you should know that with kb, strafe that the Valk should not be getting hit much, you should also know that with Freezing Arrow that anything that is not immune to Cold is Frozen and on most occassion shattered to bits with just a single arrow, so please tell me why you need to up the life on your valk to tank basically nothing?

have yopu ever heard of shooting off-screen, slower missiles and so on...
cold arrow archers do not hit you, neither do aura-enchatned bosses....... Okay only if one knows how to work with an amazon
Shit, mentioned earlier HOW the fuck do you know where all the monsters are offscreen, are you going to take 5 steps, fire strafe to see??
are you using maphack to show you where they are??, I do not use hacks, I do not waste time with trying to find out where the monsters are by idle strafe or other.
I think your arguement is childish, you are trying to prove a point with sad arguements. Now remember that IF i tele over a WALL there is a chance that I will fall into the middle of a pack of minions, or in between 2 packs, and again, resistences are needed. Your arguement again is pointless.


still not a good guide
Once you get out of the basics, maybe you will see that the guide actually covers more areas than you can cover with your ideas.
Take a look at what I acheive with Concept 1.0, 2.0 and Windforce, now go create a bowazon that can still acheive all of that without using
any stat points whatsoever. Take note of the skills on the main page and see if you can reach those skills at lvl83 or whatever.

Concept 1.0 & Concept 2.0
1) 102% Pierce. HOW = Level 9 Pierce reaches 69% and Razortail gives 33%. Note: Only need 1 hard point into Pierce Skill.
2) HIGH Attack Rating = You want to at least have 90%+ chance in hitting all monsters including bosses.
3) 14% Mana Leech. This automatically comes from Pheonix GMB
4) 5-10% Life Leech. This is covered in both concepts.
5) Knockback
6) 50% IAS Note: Your merc will be wielding Faith and you will reach 8fpa with a Single Arrow and 3fpa with Strafe
7) 30-75% Faster Run Walk. This is covered in both concepts.
8) Other: If i keep on rambling, it will take too much space.

Windforce
1) 102% Pierce. HOW = Level 9 Pierce reaches 69% and Razortail gives 33%. Note: Only need 2 hard point into Pierce Skill.
2) HIGH Attack Rating = You want to at least have 90%+ chance in hitting all monsters including bosses.
3) 7% Mana Leech. This automatically comes from Windforce
4) 8-10% Life Leech. Andy's Visage.
5) Knockback. Windforce
6) 95% IAS Note: Your merc will be wielding Faith and you will reach 7fpa and 3.5 attacks per second with a Single Arrow and 3fpa with Strafe

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Aug 13 2008 07:32am

innovation= improvement

but phoenix is neither better as faith, nor as a windforce.... just the plain stats of the weapon say than
so why should one use it, try to sell it as a new build, if it is not an improvement

your firestorm means castdelay, less damage dealt per time/interruption of the attack......
even a wws beats phoenix as strafe bow... ^^
and ice or wizendraw beat it as cold bow....
besides the fact that if one concentrates on colddam, one would want to use nw

and using enigma on a bowie is still pointless in pvm

why should I not have a tunnel vision, if i look at the AR amount of a glascannon build, I can safely say that there is already enough of it, however
just a simple calculation
wt`s offer 10 str, 10 vita, which equal 20 dex from cow king
wt`s offer 25% frw, cow king only 54% more= wayne because we loose on maxdam/ar charms........

but now let´s see
20 avdam, 500 off weapon ed from dex, 200 from might, 100% from strafe= 180 avdam
68% crit=24480
32 without crit=5760
------- average damage lost: 302 per arrow

and looking at it we argue about wether one wants cb, which is capped in this case here, gores versus wt´s at a 15% chance of taking away ~ 3-6% of a monsters life or about 302 extradamage for every arrow we fire

now another calculation: 20 avdam= 40 maxdam, meaning that theese are either at least 10 maxdam+ar scs or 14 maxdam/ar+add scs

thinking outside the norm is good, but trying to sell a castration of the build as improvement is not that clever...............

one can also socket normal ed jewels, ias jewels or maxdam, simply the fact, that such circlets offer one more socket makes them much better than the giant skull


your advice is not to play the game...

an amazon, jst for a quick glance:
99% fcr on an amazon means the same castingspeed as a sorceress or barbarian at 20% fcr... awfully slow, while still meaning that one has no cta in 2nd slot but fcr, and still meaning only one thing... far longer runs+far less damage due to enigma

who nmeeds tele for eld,shenk,pindle,countess, pits, rof+cs .... you`re faster running than teleporting

and your attempt at trying to sell that amazon with that setup as mf char is rediculous considering it`s teleporting speed, mf amount and bosskiller ability.....

wether fortitude or treachery totally depends on what your merc does .. as bosskiller, treachery>fortitude because more strikes/s more cb dealt
if we use reaper`s treachery > fortitude because of more strikes and so on
if there is one damage enhancing aura or curse around treachery > fortitude
treachery means more monsters attacke din the same amount of time-->more monsters knocked into fhr-->merc receives less hits

GA always hits ^^ for bosses, the a2 merc is the better bosskiller than oneself, even if one would use the faith wielding rouque because he deals a good chunk of cb, can give decrepefy and ~ has 48% ds while doing 4 attacks/s with 35+% cb

one can use his own inner sight and attack while merc does the best he can to actually kill the boss....

you know the odds of finding 2 vex, 2 jahs,lo,ber
If you`d know them, you`d actually know what the odds of finding or crafting a decent ring look like.....
but hey, even those can be traded, so come out of your dream world...................... there are several easy ways to get decent rings...
gambling,finding,crafting get off your behind and do that.........

the argument about cliffkiller or lycanders was, that you do not need a cta+lidless for some puny +2 skillevels for a valkyre or decoy......

by the way
since I would not tele.. I deal more damage and don`t run into such problems.....
+ a decently placed decoy and valk are nice distractions to get out of such traps
my decoy can hold off more damage, my valkyre lives longer.. hmm better blockers/distractions

if the person controlling the build runs into such traps... that person should work on his/her gameplay

by the way... I don`t care about your setup one or 2 because it does not matrter that much, giant skull is inferior to a decent circ or natalya on any day of the week because it has less holes or less stats/resis......

how does one find out wether monsters are off screen....
yes fire off screen.. if oyu see a ll/ml animation, then there are opponents there
another way is to place a decoy or valkyre ahead of oneself to attract monsters to that target and easily finishing them off

your concept 1+2 versus
3 socks+ add circ
cat`s eye
fortitude/CoH
bow of choice... wf,faith,upped wws,lyc,skystrike, xxx,yyy,zzz
kb gloves
razor
wt`s
2x crafted rings (ll/ml or dl rings)


razor and done... we both do that
ar= glasscannon build ....... nmothing we could not care less about
3 crafted ring
4 see 3
5 gloves
6 cat´s + circ=65 ias
7 30 frw from cat`s 25% from wt`s, 20 or 30 possible on the circlet........

now let`s see
+2 all won`t really increase or crit, nor is it interesting for our resistances or ar that much

+2 all means 10% ed for strafe , for ca not important because one can simply press "w" and use a neat colddam bow for FA
enigma has 0,75 str per level, means at lvl 90 67 str
so 67+10= 77% ed possible

fortitude or Coh offer 210-300% ed
26-65 prisma, ll,defense,life,str, whatever ^^

-- 123-223 % more off weapon ed (which equals about 24-44 skillpoints in strafe)
20 more average damage

no interruption of our strafe series due to firestorm--> more damge dealt
more avdam thanks to wt`s more damage dealt
more damage thanks to armor--> more damage dealt
more safety due to higher resistances--> better

now off to beat your wf setup
1 both done, easily
2 glasscannon build
3 we both use wf
4 rings
5same
6 shael/ias+add jewel in wf+45 helmet,20 amu,20 gloves

still your guide sucks...........

This post was edited by Ancalagon on Aug 13 2008 10:34am

I was a little to lazy to do the mighter merc setup, so I went for the faith merc just to give you some simple hints

otherwise I can give some other setups If I can find the time ^^

This post was edited by Ancalagon on Aug 13 2008 11:56am

Innovative/Innovation = Something New, New Ideas. not Improvement

I have decided to explain the reasoning behind my setup in another way.
Take note first, if I wanted to create what has been created based around
Highest damage, I would look at the other guides.

Why I mf with this build, simple:
To find armors to bug, elite weapons (superior & normal, white & eth)
To find Charms, skillers. (Remember that GC's are either Blue/Gold, and SC's are only Blue, so MF does not apply)
To find some godly armors/circs/monarchs with jewellers mod
I also have the same base chance to find High Runes as every other build
And find some of those nice uniques which does drop on occassions.

Basic Build setup:
#1 To give versatility with the skill point distribution.
....This is given by using + Skill items to increase a wider "Range" of skills at a lower level
....It gives the player the opportunity to invest "Skill" points in other areas if they wish, like GA/Multi or improve on other skills.
#2 Covering many areas that create an effective Bowazon PvM.
....Knockback, Life Leech, Mana Leech, IAS, 100% Pierce, Resistences, Damage, FRW, Helpers (Merc, Valk & Decoy)
#3 Brief explanation on Other items for different opinions.

How does my Concepts give you Versatility on Skill Placement.
Each level you go up, you receive 1 Skill Point, so you have to choose between many Skills.
Dodge/Evade/Crit Strike/Valk/Decoy/Penetrate (Innate Skills are not a synergy, so +Skill items apply)
Freezing Arrow/GA/Cold Arrow/Strafe/Multi Shot (since +Skill items do not apply to synergy, it is best to choose a Synergy)
So you are limited to choosing your main attack and it's Synergy/ies.
What do you want: An effective build @ lvl80, or lvl95?

The + All Skills aids this build in more ways than most builds.
Bow Skills for starters, this enhances the damage and AR per Skill (not synergies, minimal dmg yes, but still better than none)
Passive Skills, since most are "INNATE" abilities, your Dodge/Evade skills have all improved, also penetrate & Crit Strike
...Now, as for the Valk, this has just increased in base Life/Damage & Defense.
...Now, Decoy has just gained more life, making it last longer.
Now, let's look at your "Pre Req" Skills, like "Inner Sight", now you can use this with more effectiveness
BO level will also increase, giving you more life/MANA and length of time.

How does my Concepts cover areas to make it Effective?
The item Selection provides you with the basics, and has been mentioned in the initial guide.
Now if you combine these with "Versatility on Skill Placement", they both complement each other.

Let us take "Knockback" as one example.
Since "Phoenix GMB" does not give you the Knockback skill like "Windforce", we have to accommodate it by other means.
#1 Crafted Glove, this is a good option, basically one of the best and is mentioned in "Concept 2.0"
#2 "Nef" rune inserted into Bow is an option for other bows, but never a Runeword or WF, so ignore this option.
#3 Helms like "Giant Skull" gives you "Knockback". Out of these helms, you get more versatility with G/Skull, like Str & 2 soc.
#4 Armor (forgot name, look into it later on) with Knockback, well using this will kill the Concept of it being Enigma
Above gives you an idea of the limits of acheiving "Knockback"

Let us take "High Attack Rating" to reach "90%+ chance to Hit Monsters" as an example
To understand this a bit better, think of how you acheive "Max Block" on another character.
You look at your "Character Screen" and place your "Cursor" (mouse pointer) over the "Defense" section to read xx% Block.
Now do the same thing when using "Strafe" or "Freezing Arrow", BUT, after you have attacked a monster/boss.
This will show you exactly what chance you have of hitting that particular monster/boss
Also let me clear up a MYTH about Guided Arrow always hitting.
This is incorrect, there is ALWAYS a 5% chance that it will MISS, this does not include being blocked.
Besides the "Initial" damage when hitting, we have to think of all the "CtC Procs", Leech, Knockback, Pierce etc.
Another way to think of this;
Strafe: Fires 20 arrows @ 6fps and 18 arrows hit @ 90% chance to hit (1/3 dmg per arrow)
Freezing Arrow: Fires 1 arrow @ 7fps and 1 arrow hit @ 90% chance to hit (full arrow dmg + splash dmg)

Let me explain this Quote in Guide

#1 As stated that "IT is BEST IF you can Glitch", you do not have too, pure and simple.
#2 As stated that "for this build to be EFFECTIVE", not mentioning the BEST guide.


Again, explained at the top of the Guide, funny how reading makes it easier.
So now you can get off your War Travs buzz

Now let us take a look more closely at "Skill Placement" based on "Item Setup" and both "Concept 1.0 & 2.0"

Concept 1.0

Notice that you are only spending roughly 80 Skill points, yet you reach Level 20/or above in 5 skills
#1 Freezing Arrow
#2 Cold Arrow
#3 Strafe
#4 Valkerie
#5 Penetrate
Also, if you had "Read" it properly, you would see that you can add in another 10 points into Critical Strike if you Desire.

Concept 2.0

Notice that you are only spending roughly 75 Skill points, yet you reach Level 20/or above in 5 skills
#1 Freezing Arrow
#2 Cold Arrow
#3 Strafe
#4 Valkerie
#5 Penetrate
Also, if you had "Read" it properly, you would see that you can add in another 11 points into Critical Strike if you Desire.

Notice that the Pre Req skills are either 9 or 12, making them usable with greater effect. And the Dodge/Avoid/Evade has approximately 40+% chance.

Let us see why Enigma is good for this build
#1 As mentioned earlier, the +2 All Skills. This saves you so much Skill points.
#2 5% Bonus to Life (meaning more life, more safety)
#3 8% Damage Reduction
#4 14 Life per kill
#5 Strength to hold other items without using points
#6 Teleport for crossing any obstruction
#7 45% FRW

Now let us go into the "Resistences" point of view
The best way I can explain this is by referring to "SOULS".
They cast "Lightning", even if the Valk/Decoy or merc is Targeted, the "Lightning"
travels through them onto your character if you are in line (behind) the target.
This means you DO get hit, and that you take elemental damage.

You can not give me any setups for a Versatile Bowazon that I have not thought of.
As for me explaining "Tunnel Vision" being your downfall was based on your indepth
fetish with Best Damage output. If you want "Damage output" look at the PvP builds,
They have all the best items. Myself and 4x other friends have created both
PvP and PvM Bowa's.

I truelly hope you read this and understand that it is a versatile build, even the Windforce section
leaves it up to the person reading it to place skill points in the areas they wish too.


Do not bother mentioning "Fortitude/Nightwings/Ice" with build, just read below Quote



This post was edited by izParagonzi on Aug 14 2008 12:51am

if something is new, then it must be better than the things existing up to this point, otherwise nobody would use it because it would not offer any advantage

if it was not that way, you could introduce hammerdins and soceresses that do not play with any fcr, which, going by your definition, would be an innovation because nobody has ever really done this before.....
that is about the league that your argumentation and guide are in......

first of all... any casterbuild has a higher killspeed with more mf than you
any decently planned wf multizon or wws strafezon has more damage than you
in both cases they have a higher killspeed--> more monsters killed in the same amount of time--> more chances for drops-->more chances for items-->more chances to find something useful

with your build you are neither better at going for white items,runes,grey stuff,charms nor blue,yellow,golden or green stuff...

by the way.. charms do not have any baseitem, therefore mf does not make any difference wether you have mf or not.....

now I will spare me the details of you not answering all that I have come up with in my last lengthy post....
You just repeat your guide, while my postings are already reactions to your guide.... and basiccally
you try to repeat your start while not reacting to arguments I have already given as response to your guide/your start of the discussion........

I am already in the middle of the discussion while you don´t react to arguments given but stoiccally repeat stuff that I already have read and answered/reacted to
start discussing the replies given instead of repeating arguments that have already been heard.
not reacting to arguments is what little children do and not what one would expect from somebody who tries to put forward a guide....

why don´t you react to the fact that I have posted setups that smoke yours any day of the week and which include all the specifics that you had wanted.
why is there no reasonable reaction to the wt`s argument kicking your cow king or gores
why is there no reaction to the flaws of choosing phoenix as a weapon
where is yur reply to the fact that you don´t have any fcr
where is your reply to the debate of valklevel
regarding mf: from not choosing wt`s you loose the damage of 14 small charms in vour inventory
14*7=98 so you loose 98% mf... looking at the damageloss due to firestorm, not using cat`s the gap grows and I have even more space free in my inventory.....
where is your reply to fortitude versus treachery
where is your reply to the "i can get no good rings, but i have a ton of high runes, question)
where is oyur reply to the simple use of valc, decoy as scouts
where is your replay to the enigma vs forty discussion


difference between lvl 20 and 30 critical strike= 5% critical strike--> wasted points

just looking at my setup, I have far more ed-->, I need less points in multi or strafe to achive more damage than you do--> spare points that I can use somewhere else

well you have some questions to answer and I hope your next reply is actually a reply to the last 3 postings made by me

This post was edited by Ancalagon on Aug 14 2008 05:02am

if something is new, then it must be better than the things existing up to this point, otherwise nobody would use it because it would not offer any advantage

Phoenix has it's advantages: the ability to Replenish Mana with Ease, the abilty to Replenish Life with Ease & the 14% Mana Leech

if it was not that way, you could introduce hammerdins and soceresses that do not play with any fcr, which, going by your definition, would be an innovation because nobody has ever really done this before.....
that is about the league that your argumentation and guide are in......

Casters are a different subject, if you want to discuss that issue, then go do it in my Sorc Guides

first of all... any casterbuild has a higher killspeed with more mf than you
any decently planned wf multizon or wws strafezon has more damage than you
in both cases they have a higher killspeed--> more monsters killed in the same amount of time--> more chances for drops-->more chances for items-->more chances to find something useful

If you read the WF guide that I also implemented, you would realise that she is the 2nd Highest Damaging Zon out that is not a PvP build (even though WT's is as I said the better boots, but you did not read that did you)

with your build you are neither better at going for white items,runes,grey stuff,charms nor blue,yellow,golden or green stuff...
by the way.. charms do not have any baseitem, therefore mf does not make any difference wether you have mf or not.....

You need a lesson in Mf, the lower end mf % gives you better chances of white items as I stated, I do not care for Yellow/Gold/Green. Read.
As for charms, you answered exactly what I stated, Read

now I will spare me the details of you not answering all that I have come up with in my last lengthy post....
You just repeat your guide, while my postings are already reactions to your guide.... and basiccally
you try to repeat your start while not reacting to arguments I have already given as response to your guide/your start of the discussion......

The quotes I supplied answered your so called disputes. example,
you mentioned Nightwings would be better, in my guide Item Options, I had already mentioned it.
You mentioned Fortitude, again in my guide I gave mention to it.
You mentioned Ice bow, again I mentioned it
You mentioned KB Gloves, once again I have mentioned it. Also included in the 2.0 Concept
You mentioned Chains of Honour, and once again I have mentioned it in my guide.
Do you not see the pattern, do you honestly think that disputing my guide by mentioning items THAT I ALREADY LISTED proves anything
You are just repeating MY GUIDE ITEMS


I am already in the middle of the discussion while you don´t react to arguments given but stoiccally repeat stuff that I already have read and answered/reacted to
start discussing the replies given instead of repeating arguments that have already been heard.
not reacting to arguments is what little children do and not what one would expect from somebody who tries to put forward a guide....

You state an arguement based around items and calculations, the thing that you seem to miss, while trying to prove me wrong, is the fact that those items are included in the guide for all people to use with the idea of covering all aspects of making an Effective bowazon. I think you should take up some grammatical aid in the above sentence. It does not read well, and I think I have misinterpretated it. I do not need to debate a person that is LISTING items that I have already covered, and I also gave recognition to how to use them and still have the basics met.

why don´t you react to the fact that I have posted setups that smoke yours any day of the week and which include all the specifics that you had wanted.
YOU just listed items that I have already mentioned, how can you smoke what I have already done, mentioned?

why is there no reasonable reaction to the wt`s argument kicking your cow king or gores
I missed the WT's, that is correct, but, if you had read my previous posts, I said it was the BEST, but that is basic common knowledge with EVERY other Bowa guide out. AGAIN, YOU DID NOT READ

why is there no reaction to the flaws of choosing phoenix as a weapon
You DEFINATELY do not read, I posted initially the reason why, I also posted WF setup? AGAIN your reading flaw

where is yur reply to the fact that you don´t have any fcr
I use Base FCR, for tele'ing over obstacles, over Walls etc, who needs Higher FCR for PvM Bower?

where is your reply to the debate of valklevel
I gave mention to it, but, again you can not read, if you look to my last comments, you will notice i have done that and explained multiple things.

regarding mf: from not choosing wt`s you loose the damage of 14 small charms in vour inventory
14*7=98 so you loose 98% mf... looking at the damageloss due to firestorm, not using cat`s the gap grows and I have even more space free in my inventory.....
I mf for WHITE items, do you not understand that the higher mf % kills the chances of finding a 15% ed 3 Socket Archon Plate Armor? AGAIN you did not read, it is in the previous post
What you lose in damage with firestorm is the most pathetic arguement ever.
#1 Yes it interrupts Strafe, so instead of 10 arrows, you may only get 7 arrows, now since 100% pierce (95% as pos chance to fail) they hit other target behind, during that time before it casts again, you can strafe.
#2 Freezing Arrow, this attack is NOT Interrupted at all, there is only a DELAY before next Freezing Arrow
So your arguements pointing out less damage is incorrect, find a proper calculation based on 7fps & the amount of frames that Firestorm uses while delaying next attack.

where is your reply to fortitude versus treachery
I gave you the Answer in the first response, but, again you did not READ.

where is your reply to the "i can get no good rings, but i have a ton of high runes, question)
This was a pathetic argument, I answered it easily, you responded with Gambling/Trading/Crafting, and I just found that so funny, literally, but, I will indulge you in this subject.
#1 Gambling for it, best fastest way is a GF barb to get the gold, then gamble with a lvl95+ character for better chances of great mods. Now, since mf does not apply while gambling, the chances of getting a specific rare ring has a higher chance than gambling a unique ring.
#2 Trading, this will be the fastest way to get the ring, problem is, finding the person that has it while having a trade game up. Now posting on jsp SCL or even NL is even funnier with 280+ people on and by the time you post it up, it is near the bottom of the page and you can not bump it for another 4 HOURS, damn, how many weeks before I hit the right person with the correct ring?
#3 Crafting, besides the normal attributes given, the chances of getting the other mods are also very high. NOW, for a better chance of getting better mods, you need to get a magic ring with a high ilvl, this can take awhile, then there are the runes, not too mention the gems, as for jewels they are a dime a dozen. Now if you were to trade for the gems (40 gems vs 35-40fg) it could still take you along time crafting the one you want.

where is oyur reply to the simple use of valc, decoy as scouts
You did not state that as an arguements, and if you actually read my SKILL placements, you would notice that my Valk is lvl20 by using 9 or 7 skill points only. HOW COME you can not READ?

where is your replay to the enigma vs forty discussion
Once again you do not read, or is it that you do not comprehend the Concept?

difference between lvl 20 and 30 critical strike= 5% critical strike--> wasted points
Where in my Skill Placement does it Say to get lvl30 Critical Strike? You definately do not know how to READ

just looking at my setup, I have far more ed-->, I need less points in multi or strafe to achive more damage than you do--> spare points that I can use somewhere else
I give you a bet that you don't, reason being, I did not choose MULTI, as for Strafe I will agree only on the Pheonix Build, not the WF build.
well you have some questions to answer and I hope your next reply is actually a reply to the last 3 postings made by me

You still did not answer me. You may have posted items, but, you never gave explanation on what areas they cover.

List items
List Skills
List all acheivements, like KB, IAS, Mana Leech, Life Leech, Str/Dex etc.

I asked for this awhile ago, and you have the audacity to say that people that do not answer back are Children and whatsoever.
Preaching something that you do not stick to shows alot about your character.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Aug 14 2008 07:01am

replenish mana and life: ml, ll- hey they don´t even rely on dead corpsed but on physical damage and we gain more from them then from redempption, phoenix has compareably low damage + interruption because of firestorm
no advantage in using phoenix

the remark was about general mf character builds and that oyur bowzon is not ideal in any way for that, even with a different setup, one can deal more damage and have more mf/safety at the same time
also for searching grey/white items,runes and charms.. pure damage and killspeed are the main factors

even with the wf build, one has more damage and mf while kicking enigma into the trashbin

by the way.. mf does not influence the number of items that drop, it only affects the color of them
http://forums.d2jsp.org/index.php?showtopic=19480795&f=87&st=0
read this to gain some knowledge or check the arreat summit......

I am saying why other items are superior to your setupos and you don´t defend your setup.....
how can I smoke a setup that you mention as best with other items trhat you say are 2nd or 3rd.... simply by prooving that your 1st choice is not that benefitial for the build

play wt`s on a fa build/exa build... not really that nice+ looking back, you simply tried to sell cow king as best and that is not true

who needs teleport on a bowzon, if this only means
while running arealvl 85 missing out monsters, missing chances for items
by the way... you said you want this as an mf runner for andy,countess,meph,baal,nille.................. I am sure you run all the way to those bosses....

if you run for white items, you wanna increae your killspeed and there wt`s > all

@ firestorm--> cast delay, either your strafe is interrupted or you cannot fire FA`s for ~0,5-1 second
your attack is interrupted any way because you can simply not fire arrows
now let`s see
FA will roughly fire 3 arrows per second
in the delay I can fire 1,5-3 arrows loss of colddamage only if 20 fa 20 syn: 1500-300 colddamage for 1 monster...
@ strafe is capped at 3 frames per attck 8 arrows per second
now If we have a cooldown of 0,5-1 second, loosing 4-8 arrows and the damage one deals with them is not significant.....
yeah sure....

gambling:
Leecherringe(highlvl)
-6ll
-120ar
-15str
-15dex
-30%resi
-9min
-40life
----------------- charlvl 74 (source: indiablo gamble guide)

pgems: play the game, you can either rush somebdy in under 10 minutes to hfq and get gems or simply collect the ones you find throughout the game.. flawless drop very often
@ runes.. ocuntess ftw, one gets terrorkeys anyway

crafting:
affixes for bloodcraft(which we wanna have): vampire,mammoth,perfection,titan and maybe that for mindam--> (bloodcraftbasiscs+16-20 str,16-20 dex,7-8 ll,6 ml,10-13 mindam,31-40 life)
--->looking at the formulas with the affixes
basic rings: gamble for them, always Ilvl depending on your charlevel
charlevel for gambling the ring with the highest chances of getting such stats: 80-83
you don´t trust me.. check arreatsummit or amazonbasin for formulas and confirmation or take a look @ indiablo

the argument about decoy and valk was that you teleport through walls instead of running..........

for the wf build it is the same as for the pheonix build.. I use forti, you use enigma... you gain less than 100% ed from your armor.....

@ list items--> look above....



too lazy to go about the skill placement, cause you can figure that out yourself, easily

You need to learn English, as you can not comprehend the reason for this build mf'ing for white items, yet you try to make me look like a fool by posting a link to mf'ing, shit, if you know so much, how come you did not understand what I said??

Now, since you are so driven on Damage, you forgot that Freezing Arrow uses Mana exceptionally fast, especially on bosses like Baal. Once you get this in your mind you may think better.

Since when did I state that the other items were 2nd or 3rd from the Optional List? You truly do not understand English, the word Optional, meaning exactly that. It gives the viewer like yourself to try the items that you feel comfortable with, and with your persistant argue'ing, you feel more comfortable with other items, so what is wrong with my Guide?, also another English lesson for you, the word "Guide" is just a that, not the Rule of Thumb, but, if you think that way, you are just a typical noob.

As for the lvl85 areas, I run certain ones based on being a Glasscannon, And as for running to Countess/Andy etc, I only run based on the length of the hall, tele over wall when I see clear area.

Kill Speed, I kill faster with Freezing Arrow, now as for the WT's for added damage, only applies to the Arrow itself, not the Extended Cold Splash Damage, As for Strafe dmg, it is the logical advice, but I guarantee that my build, I connect 95% of the time with all my arrows and after the pierce, I connect another 95% of the time, so in the long run, I have more kill speed.

Your calculations are pointless, you are using Hypothetical equations based on such and such numbers.
As for the fire storm interrupting, so what, at least i am doing fire damage to cold immunes.
And andariels weakest element is Fire also, so with a Firestorm on her would still be doing damage.

going by the gambling thing you inserted, the odds for getting that specific ring with that level characters is like trying to gamble a unique ring with a lvl90 character, you know what the actual number are for getting Specific Rings????, more than getting a random unique.
As for your Pgem Idea, shit just do cows Hell, you get them faster there. Honestly, you think those people are 100% correct?, they are correct yes, but there are still other areas to get items just as fast.
Highrunes, vouch Countess, but I have found more High Runes in Hell Tristram than I have running Countess with my Bowazons, I have also found More High Runes doing Ancient Tunnels than Countess.

As for your Craft notes, that is old news, as I have stated before, the chances of getting specific mods after the crafting mods are extremelly high because of the amount of combinations.

As for the rest, I will get to it later on. I have spent more than enough time with you on these subjects.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Aug 14 2008 09:59am

first of all.. I don´t need to learn english,. as far as the american universities are concerned...(TOEFL test ftw)
but If I don`t understand you correctly, I doubt that the mistake is on my end........

since magic find does not increase your chance to find white items, you don´t want it...
if you say things like

makes sense, doen`t it, to hunt for blue items without mf

or on the other hand, wearing enigma as armor on one`s hunt for white items....

@ countess.... all I was hinting at where sol runes, mans,rals,thuls for crafting, same as the lvlreq for the crafting

neither do you need a ring with a high level, nor do you need a high level char to craft the ring, nor do you need a high lvl to gamble.. you talk about 95 to gamble the ring, I know that you only need 74, besides the fact that for higher level crafting and gambling , other affixes would be activated which would make the lvlreq rise or make less sense/are not what we want
we need a char of lvl 80-83, who buys his ring through gambling and crafts them, if we don`t give him a nice arealvl 85 ring or sth like that....

@ baal... ever heard of ml?
ever heard of pots... I have no problem doing that If I use my FA

a guide ios there to tell one how to build a char, what do do and what to have, not wait, If one achieves better results with other items but the same charbuild, that means that the given guide is incorrect in it`s advide
f.e.
mf:
fortitude offers more safety and more damage--> more free space in inventory that can be used for mffing than enigma or that can be used for more damage and thus increase our killspeed for white items

you want to tell me, that you use phoenix bow as an FA zon?
sorry, but even Wizendraw deals more FA damage than phoenix
(did I mention the 0,6 seconds cast delay of firestorm, which you trigger at 40-55% chance)

by the way, you say you hunt for items, if so, why would you want to use FA for that, which shatters corpses with it`s colddamage, and has negative effects on the amounts of items that drop

As For strafe: other Bows deal more strafe damage, like wf,wws or faith and so on and so forth
also here comes the delay of firestorm

--------- neither absolute screendam, nor effective damage dealt per second is anywhere near that of other weapons
no higher killspeed
worthless phoenix

I'll get back to you on this one Ancalagon.

But for the meantime, I like this;

Since the Phoenix Bow has 14% ML, don't you think I just proved it's usefulness, meaning I do not have to get those rings with ML etc???
Anyway, it is common practice to use pots, doh, and it is even better to use Strafe if you are low to fill up your mana, and with Pheonix and 90% chance to hit, then only 1 strafe blast and full again.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Aug 14 2008 04:22pm