You could just wsg if the hammer's fhring you, I don't really find it an issue myself though.

Regarding smiters: Why can't you just lure with teleport patterns? Also I think you're safer when teleporting than whirling since you commit less, whirl isn't really a move that automatically stops smiters hitting you. Also I think saying it's a "must have" is a little excessive, it's not going to change the fact that trap>smiters regardless of whether you use whirl or not.

Meh anyway this is meant to be a ghost topic, went a little off topic lol.

well y
guess different stuff works for different ppl

i stated as a hybrid and a dont wanna cut this last piece that gave me the actual impuls to play a sin in the first place
i wsm so wsg isnt an option

either way i dont have a hard time vs palys usually

y lets let the ghosts talk again how they go vs hdong

This post was edited by MoXeR on Apr 20 2012 05:58am

why would u wsm bug on a trapper?

good question ^^
anyways i just prefure to dodge with ww rather than wsg

This post was edited by MoXeR on Apr 20 2012 07:18am

and why would yo wsm bug as a hybrid vs hamer when using Bos?

wow you're thick. THE POINT IS THAT HAVING TO BE IN HAMMER RANGE IS VERY RISKY VS GOOD HAMMERS and you don't need that to do damage with a trapper but you do with a ghost. but of course there's more to the duel than just that, but this whole argument was about trappers being better than ghosts at dueling hammers and I think it's pretty safe to say it's true. do you ever duel vs good hammers (not that many left anymore though)? and yes, i do duel.

Thanks, I used to get thick compliment on totally different thing.
The point of hammer range and everything, I know what you are trying to say.
But that sentence in my head means that trappers beat hammer 100% of the duels. Cause you know, I don't need to be in hammer range. Also necro, ama and similar, EZ vs hammer, cause you know, you have attack that hits from afar and you don't have to be in range while he has to be. Also widowmaker on every char, and hammers go down EZ, I don't know what's the problem here.

All I'm saying as you can see, that I dislike that single argument. Cause it's fucking tarded to presume if you don't have to be in the melee range, that you won't be. All I'm saying. And also I just made note on time (seconds) to beat a hammer. With a trapper and with a ghost, I don't think there is much of a difference. Sure, ghost is not as strong char as trapper, but there isn't such a big difference. The only big difference is that in a barb duel the ghost is fucked.

I just like to argue on the arguments. You are generalizing at some point and I'm pointing where is that place.
And I might not know a lot about trappers, but this WW movement is cool for me, maybe trappers should try it. I could be wrong here tho.

mindblast away 2k+ health. hammerdins will come at you.

but yes vrooming around hammers while not getting hit is an art.
if they are good at desync you have to read it and get unanswered hits and get out of "danger: desync hammers here" zones.
if they telehammer a lot you can always go davestyle on them or just whirl to dodge telehammer and whirl yourself into blindspot. extra points for dclawing from blindspot. does not work well on hammerdins that combine good telehammer + good desync. but then you just mix up your gameplay and adjust to how your opponent plays.

I don't think its a bad matchup, just one that takes experience in knowing how hammers work. it definitely does take more finesse than trapper vs hammer imho.

no that's not what im saying. trappers surely don't beat good hammers 100% and of course shit happens and hammers get in range with you, but you want to be in hammer range for as little as possible.

but yea well, maybe a ghost with a certain setup for this matchup (something that I have never seen a ghost actually use vs hammers, but barely any of the "known" eu guys are playing ghost anyway) could actually do pretty decently vs even a good hammer

well yea that depends on the kind of hammerdin you're dueling i guess
don't think normal hammers would really be a huge issue but i would be suprised if these 1-2 euro hammers who can win basically everything (druids, trappers, bowas, sorcs, necs, whatever) vs even good players would lose to a ghost. but yea well who knows, i think oak using ghost might have a chance if they were very good. but i don't know of any very good ghosts playing in eu (just like there's no very good hammers in east) so its kinda hard to say