Quote (faulk @ Tue, Jul 4 2006, 09:24pm)

Well marvel.

Eny proofs? Or just your word?

I can allways say that faith has no fana, it just seem so :O:O OMG! that must be true then?

Diablo = based on math, learn some math and then come sitchat.

Yas my grammar sucks, i hate the fact that i am not cocky englishman or some fat american. (no offense vs USA or enyone living in it)

Quote (Tortured1 @ Tue, Jul 4 2006, 08:04pm)

My
grammar is flawless. Go choke on a dick, please. Also, since you don't
know how to use the word "said" properly as I did, I would assume
you're still in high school. Perhaps you never finished middle school?
Anyway, go to your local bookstore and pick up a grammar book as soon
as you can, and while you're at it, try playing in traffic. I hear it's
all the rage among the uneducated forum-nerds nowadays.

You
should also be introduced to the edit button, which I've used on this
post. It saves bandwidth and it makes you look more intelligent than a
double or even triple posting tool such as yourself. Let Luis have his
guide, and stop ruining it. I wish you all would/could just duel (since
I believe Luis sold his shit) so you would be owned and then just shut
the fuck up.

Luis, if this kid has a ladder character he'd like to duel you with, you can borrow my BvC's gear any time.

Quote (marvel. @ Tue, Jul 4 2006, 09:27pm)

i'll be the first one to tell you that, but the fact stands me/menzo have always used barbs, and i've tested this many times. mikes position on the bvb ladder full of grief users spoke for itself. botd has advantages over grief, i'd use a botd vs a druid/bvb any day, or a zon. griefs damage is obviously better

i'm canadian, and i don't care how you type. if you want proof i'll put on 4 setups, grief+grief, grief+beast, botd+grief, and botd+beast.
botd+grief will be best
grief+beast will be second best

and you will notice a huge difference.

Quote (mcm @ Tue, Jul 4 2006, 08:38pm)

Marvel/Menzo, using anecdotes to "prove" item (a) is better than item ( is a very poor way to go about making your case.





First lesson in scientific method: Eliminate variables not related to the comparison. Here you're advocating dueling a druid or zon to test effectiveness of a weapon. Do you have any idea how many chance to hit calculations factor into whether you actually hit a zon? Block, defense, passive dodge. Two of these are completely unaffected by weapon selection (block/dodge). Defense can be affected depending on the mods of the weapon, however in this case BOTD only offers 50AR over grief, which is negligible. All three of these variables must be eliminated before you can do a reasonable comparison.

You weren't just happen to be using a Grief with < 34% IAS, were you?



How exactly can you tell that? "Gut feeling" isn't a valid answer, BTW, even as omniscient as you would like to think you are.

About the whole damage argument:

Here are some screens from a little spreadsheet I use to evalute item combinations. This first one is what we call a CONTROL, it is the baseline for any comparison. Note the following:

• All physical damage except OW is taken into account here.
  
• Average damage is ultimately derived, because when comparing two subjects with different ranges, it is the average that yields the accurate comparison, not the extents of said ranges (Marvel, apologies for using a grammatical construct you're not familiar with, ask Tortured1 for help with that one).
  
• The last rows of the tables show cumulative PVP damage. This is a potential damage, where blocking/dodging/chance to hit etc is not taken into account.

Here is Grief/Beast:



(Note the "Improvement.." column, showing relative weapon differences at each frame of WW and cumulative PVP differences at each frame of WW)

Grief/Grief:



(Follow-up in next post)