you try to correct his grammar after just saying "I e-raging those said nerds"

cut your adams apple out and eat it

This post was edited by marvel. on Jul 4 2006 12:59pm

and which "blizz sorcs necros and druids" did you duel, because i remeber me on druid blizz and necro, martin on necro and druid, and pat on druid all beating your barb, this was right before 1.11 came out, not 3 years ago...

and yes new items do help, but they also help me, considering i dueled you on a vita necro, vita druid, and my sorc..?

anyways, name the people?

What is wrong with it?

you dueled me right before .11 came out?
marvel please just stop lying man its pathetic.
I dueled you with a bvb barb a while ago. i had 5.6k life bvb max block barb incase you dont understand. since then i have remade as a bvc. dunno if you noticed.
i had my bvb barb begining of .1
you can ask rob (vita) i know u play cs with him, hes known me since .1 began.

i never dueled paht besides xiii vs friggen duels and some d2pk when he wasnt on wiind druid, i dueled martin once i forget when on his sub-e necro.

i go about 50/50 with the few good necros i dueled like koda, anathema, adrian. sometimes i win by a bit or lose by a bit.
druids i can beat most unless they play 100% defensive in which case its a stupid chase duel, i still beat most. the only really good offensive druids ive dueled were tony (tdc-ownt) and sam (ag).
bliz sorcs i have beaten: kylev (eve), john (ecko-chill, quik, friggenquik), koda, probably more than i can name since only john/kylev give me any trouble at all out of everyone i had the chance to duel.

the list can go on and on of good people that i can beat 1on1, but i dont like throwing around names like you to prove a point (which it really doesnt). if you want you can ask people who you know such as koda who has dueled me alot 1on1 in the past. menzo has seen me team duel a few times, etc.

point is i havent dueled you in a long time so dont assume things.

This post was edited by luis19 on Jul 4 2006 01:15pm

i can tell u luis outstands any bvc ive seen so far.

even ecko-zerk who looked pretty impressive killing Nice hammerdins with zerk was not even close.

? i dueled you on qq-fxf, not panda. if you dueled me before LS2 i would of been on panda, divx/fxf came much later, panda was remade to fire, then back to tornado, then i made fxf. i dueled you on divx as well(like a few weeks before..?)

My
grammar is flawless. Go choke on a dick, please. Also, since you don't
know how to use the word "said" properly as I did, I would assume
you're still in high school. Perhaps you never finished middle school?
Anyway, go to your local bookstore and pick up a grammar book as soon
as you can, and while you're at it, try playing in traffic. I hear it's
all the rage among the uneducated forum-nerds nowadays.

You
should also be introduced to the edit button, which I've used on this
post. It saves bandwidth and it makes you look more intelligent than a
double or even triple posting tool such as yourself. Let Luis have his
guide, and stop ruining it. I wish you all would/could just duel (since
I believe Luis sold his shit) so you would be owned and then just shut
the fuck up.

Luis, if this kid has a ladder character he'd like to duel you with, you can borrow my BvC's gear any time.

This post was edited by Tortured1 on Jul 4 2006 02:09pm

Marvel/Menzo, using anecdotes to "prove" item (a) is better than item ( is a very poor way to go about making your case.





First lesson in scientific method: Eliminate variables not related to the comparison. Here you're advocating dueling a druid or zon to test effectiveness of a weapon. Do you have any idea how many chance to hit calculations factor into whether you actually hit a zon? Block, defense, passive dodge. Two of these are completely unaffected by weapon selection (block/dodge). Defense can be affected depending on the mods of the weapon, however in this case BOTD only offers 50AR over grief, which is negligible. All three of these variables must be eliminated before you can do a reasonable comparison.

You weren't just happen to be using a Grief with < 34% IAS, were you?



How exactly can you tell that? "Gut feeling" isn't a valid answer, BTW, even as omniscient as you would like to think you are.

About the whole damage argument:

Here are some screens from a little spreadsheet I use to evalute item combinations. This first one is what we call a CONTROL, it is the baseline for any comparison. Note the following:

• All physical damage except OW is taken into account here.
• Average damage is ultimately derived, because when comparing two subjects with different ranges, it is the average that yields the accurate comparison, not the extents of said ranges (Marvel, apologies for using a grammatical construct you're not familiar with, ask Tortured1 for help with that one).
• The last rows of the tables show cumulative PVP damage. This is a potential damage, where blocking/dodging/chance to hit etc is not taken into account.

Here is Grief/Beast:



(Note the "Improvement.." column, showing relative weapon differences at each frame of WW and cumulative PVP differences at each frame of WW)

Grief/Grief:



(Follow-up in next post)

(Followed up from previous post)

Grief/Beast/Fort:



Grief/Grief/Fort:



You have very serious learning problems if you cannot acknowledge grief > ebotd, damage wise.

Another thing to pay attention to is that at frame 4 of WW, only the primary weapon attacks. Short/triangle WWs do not last much longer than 12-16 frames, so the first 12-16 frames of cumulative damage is the key comparison here when you use short/triangle WWs. Obviously versus some opponents (such as hammerdin, or any melee opponent) it is the damage > frame 4 that is important, because you will be in the later frames of your WW when you are in range of said (Marvel, oops, there I go again, sorry about that buddy) opponents.

Some of you may have noticed the "Minion?" field in those tables -- one of the things Wei (Blobs) and I were playing with back in 2004, was that vs most challenging opponents, a minion inevitably gets in the way of the first hit (golem or oak, typically). The idea was, what if this always took the frame 4 attack of WW, then how does that change the comparison? Something worth thinking about, at least.

Also the above setups using fort are interesting because here the ED from fort is enough to make the ED from beast not as important as using 2x Grief (typically you are not triangle whirling opponents when using fort, as you cannot teleport).

In the end though, beast does offer several advantages to using another grief:

• The strength may be necessary to wear a COA
• The open wounds is not negligible
• The AR boost from fanat makes a difference in CTH
• Provides you with a 9 frame swinging attack
• Bear mode for f-ing around in pubs

This post was edited by mcm on Jul 4 2006 02:52pm

Damn, that is an excellent comparison. Thanks mcm