from what ive heard from a few good kicksins your not supost to max dragon talon because if you have too many points into you kick too much and that gets you killed a lot because you cant tele away until all the kicks are in.. so if you are duelin a hdin if you get stuck in there too long you're gunna get hit

That is more a pvp concern. Pvp kicksins are very different builds from pvm or uberkiller kicksins. For killing ubers you dont really have to worry about kick burst length, and higher dtalon level means more ar which means ubers get hit more and die faster, where as in pvp more kicks can be a bad thing for the reason you mentioned.

This guide is for a pvm build. Don't try to mix pvm and pvp. If you are pvp watch your kick burst length, if building for pvm try to raise your ar for ubers.

This post was edited by Ziecheik on Aug 13 2007 01:08am

dont u need some tap for ubers?

Does this guide work for general PvM or only Ubers?

I play HC and wanna know any tweaks I'll have to make for general PvM and for ubers before I put too much hard points into some abilities.

This build is for ubers but of course it can pvm, however its kinda slow at clearing crowds. A kick/trap hybrid is a lot better suited for overall pvm.

Ok cool, so pretty much just replacing venom with death sentry? I couldn't find a guide on it so if you could link me to one you know that would be cool.

http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/index.php?showtopic=62415&st=0&p=700461&#entry700461

There are a number of variations on these dancers.
That guide should get you started and give you all the technical information you need.

If you are looking for is the most effective pvm variant, lastwish builds with synergized LS are probably the most sturdy, while jah'd stormlash with synergized LS is the fastest area clearer. either way a few things remain true for pvm:
lifetap procing = pvm invincibility
cloak of shadows/mindblast allow you to escape from anything
infinty merc speeds up how fast everything dies. Not only LS but also half DS CE damage is fire.
cb = main source of kick damage in pvm
ignore target defense = cb (with high %) being proc'd at a very rapid pace, does not work vs unique/bosses/champions but that doesnt matter, still amazing mod to have
with every enemy that you kill, DS CE starts popping bodies killing everyone else on the screen, kickers with high cb and itd can drop single targets very fast, think chain reaction
unbreakable light immune/physical immune are the only problem you will encounter in pvm with a dancer, other than IM

There are also other things to consider, a lot of players like to use duress on pvm kicksins, personally I like enigma more because at the pace a dancer clears areas in pvm, you want to get around fast, just makes for faster pvm. If you are playing HC you may want to take it slower, but dancers are pretty sturdy.

Personally my pvm dancer build back on east was:
jah'd stormlash/eld'd ss
jah'd azurewrath/35 spirit
ber'd guillaumes
arach belt
fcr/str/manaleech ring
ravenfrost
maras
draculs
up'd gores
enigma

torch/anni/gheeds
2x trap/fhr gcs
some res charms to reach 75all
cta in inv
extra space to pick stuff up

slvl 17 talon (azure-side)
1 flight
1 venom
slvl 17 shadow master
2 mindblast
1 bladefury
20 LS/DS
rest of points in finishing synergies for LS

LS should be fully synergized at level 94 with this build.
yes my equipment could have had better tweaks, yes shide > maras, its pvm I didnt care too much a kicksin with a lot less equipment can still pvm without difficulties.
azure was used for handling li/pi enemies, considering most of those are undead and azure + kick drops undead very fast. also +3 LS/DS for trapping while on azureside.
cta was held in inv to bo myself every few min, I'd rather use azure and have 2x less trap gcs
50dr/75block/48fhr/27 fcr stormlash side
16dr/86fhr/65 fcr azureside

this build I developed back when I played east, at the time I was playing purely pvp kicksin (completly different char and build) and this was more made for pvm entertainment and to rush friends. Really speedy pvm build, can solo anywhere, can solo ubers although not as quick as the uberkiller kicksin that this thread is about.
This gear listing is by no means a guide, but it has worked for me. If you want a more slow but sturdy build, other players have told me they had great success with LWPB kick/trap builds.
Slow but sturdy may be a better option if you are playing HC. my build is meant to speed by pvm and have mass crowd control, and it does that very well, although you do have to be careful on 7 or 8 player soloing. Only area that is slow is chaos sanctuary due to oblivion knights killing off merc which makes killing slower, and having to be more cautious against IM, which can kill you if you are careless. If you aren't careless a dancer should be able to handle any pvm situation thrown at it.

There are a lot of variations on pvm kicksins, feel free to experiment.

Thanks. And yeah I know LW PB will be my end result, but I can't afford that now. Any alternatives that aren't so expensive?

Hmm.. I couldn't edit but do you recommend reaching the Talon BP so I can get 7 kicks if it is possible? And should I get 1 point in Tiger and Cobra strikes? They do work pretty well in the situation. And why 1 venom?

This post was edited by Asthenic on Aug 18 2007 02:47pm

8/3 kicks are fine for pvm, 7/3 is better but dont worry about it if it causes a lot of complications with the gear you choose to use.
Make sure to keep your total kick number low, 3 kicks is fine.

oh yeah I forgot to mention I had 1 point in cobra strike on my pvm build, its useful when using a itd weapon. Dont bother ever using ts. And yeah 1 point in venom and let +skills boost, all your hard skill points should go towards synergizing LS, you want that.

The build I used was BoS only. That being the reason for more resist charms. BoS solves all kick bp problems.
If you want a "cheaper" alternative to LWPB, Jah'd stormlash is amazing. cb + static + itd tears pvm appart. If you want a cheap cheap pvm weapon, crescent moon phase is very good for the price. Use guillaumes/gores/duress to make up for the weapon's lack of cb%. That is a very solid low budget build if you cant get ahold of the good stuff.