The Ghost-ww Assassin Varient - Topic

EnKaIsAi

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#141

Sep 28 2004 10:56pm

QUOTE (wu-banger @ Sep 29 2004, 03:37 AM)

QUOTE

A few problems with your logic wu-banger.

First, it actually costs more than you predicted. Your values for some of the items are a little too modest.

second, however, 90 Runes isn't that much for a godly PvP character. Good trappers can go well past that, and a full inventory of first-tier high life skillers is even more than that.

Third, Anya bug was referred to early in the topic. When you die, the resists you get from Anya quests go away until the next game you join. So basically, when you die, -30 res for you.

Fourth, he's hitting 65 FCR, not 105, I think....

Fifth, 86% FHR is the icing on the cake, not necessary...

Sixth, I have great respect from you judging by your posts, wu-banger, but you just lost quite a bit of it by judging a character on listed damage. We all know listed damage is not a good parameter. When tons and tons of WWsin's damage (easily half in my experience....) comes from OW, does listed damage matter?

Seventh, have you met bowzons that don't stand in one place?

Eigth, 15/70s are these bugged small charms on East with 70 mana and 15 life. They completely change the face of dueling. You walk into a pubby, good chances are that there are 7 Energy Shield Sorcs around....

Hope that helped.

1) I was being modest, and I said I was being modest. I think that build would cost closer to 110 runes to buy. Not much point to that, just a side note that I wanted to get a comment on.

2) When comparing the value of characters face to face, I think low end ghost varients would suck really bad. I think high end ones in the 100+ rune range might work well, but at the end of the day it really does get down to the fact that Koda is a very skilled dueler. most likely one of the highest skill players out there. The only reason I respect the build as much as I do is because I play kick assassin a lot, so I know exactly how to stun lock any character. For 99% of players out there, they don't have the first damn clue how to stun lock. It takes mad practice as koda will probably attest too. This ghost varient, as I have said many times already, would take a tremendous amount of skill. Basically making it too frustrating for the vast majority of players. Great for koda and the like, but not good at all for the general public.

3) I've never heard of anya bug before. I'm sure it's not a problem on west, otherwise we would all know about it and bank on it when making characters and calculating resists and such. Sounds shitty. I personally stack way over anyway, but if it was in effect, I guess my stack is 30% less then I thought. I'm quite sure it isn't there though so no worries for me.

4) Any assassin, even bramble assassins, can easily hit the 42% break point. getting 1 extra frame while giving up so much is really not worth it IMO. However, FCR and teleport is what the build is based on, so of course for him it's vital. I just don't think it's needed because my same old problem, teleport is never needed for WW sins if you learn how to use dragon flight vs eveyr character. But, that is what the whole thing is about so that is a mute point here.

5) I think fast hit recovery is far more benificial then FCR, but then again, i'm a bramble sin, so of course I would.

6) I don't judge a character on listed damage alone, but as I clearly pointed out, you guys keep referring to open wounds as your main source of damage, yet you fail to realize that bramble sins have the EXACT same Open wounds that you do. I would never judge a character on listed damage because if you can stop the other guy from attacking back, which is your goal with the ghost, then what does it matter. Believe me, i'm every bit as skilled a dueler, so you don't have to tell me what time it is. All i'm saying is that if you compare stats on Bramble sins to ghost sin, I think he gives up far too much. Bramble sins have 1500 more damage at least, 5K more attack rating, more fast hit recovery, a little more free of an inventory, Massive kick damage on dragon flight, and a much stronger blade fury due to the venom damage (a highly overlooked skill mind you) There are quite a few instances where I use blade fury. It does hit more then people give it credit for. You just have to know when to use it, and when not to. Basically, the ghost gives up all that, which is a lot, and gains what? Teleport? That's what dragon flight is for

7) I've never met a bowazon that stands still and tanks. The point however is, no matter what bowazons do, and I do mean no matter what, they will still lose. They run slower, don't dish nearly enough damage, and cannot keep me away from them no matter what. It all adds up to a dead zon. Whether I kill them with half life left, or untouched, they all die just the same. Mute point, the ghost would rape any bowazon just as easy so...

8) Must be nice to have those bugged charms. I now see why I hear so much about Energy shield sorc's on east, where there are almost none on west unless you messed up your character. That would come in handy for orb / energy shield sorc's. I guess that's why I carry 91% open wounds and massive venom damage on my sin. I don't care how much mana shield they have, they still go down.

Well, again, intresting analysis. Everyone's opinion is valid and fair which is why I like posting on this forum so much even though everyone on it seems to be East. Things truly are different on your side of the world

1) The price is a moot point because he specifically said that this was expensive at the beginning of his guide.

2) See number 1, I quote Koda "THIS GUIDE IS NOT FOR BEGINNING WWSINS"

3) As a matter of fact, it is a big problem on West, I'm really surprised you've never heard of it. How do you stack so high over though? I'm curious. Equip would be helpful.

4) 1 Frame of Cast makes a huge difference, especially when you consider Sins don't cast very fast in the first place.

5) FHR is very beneficial. When did I say it wasn't? I simply stated that it wasn't necessary.

6) I never once said that Bramble Sins did not have Open Wounds also. I never once said that Ghosts have higher Venom than Ivy build. No one has ever said that Ghost can match Ivy in sheer damage. What Ghosts gain, is defense, and therefore consistency. Their BPs make it incredibly much easier to stunlock, their life is higher, they can defensive tele (if you don't have 15/70s just mana pot), etc. Bramble Sins can win some duels that Ghosts cannot, but Ghosts are just more consistent overall. If you watch sports, I'm sure you can draw some parallels.

7)Yeah, moot points, let's just leave it at that.

8) WWsins are by far the best ES Sorc killers. However, I disagree that ES is useless on west. I've seen it make a difference in some duels.

-Enkai

wu-banger

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#142

Sep 29 2004 07:57am

Well, if you're surprised that I haven't heard of anya bug before, I'll do a simple test and get back to you on it. So you're saying that if you enter the game with exactly 75% resists in hell and not 1 point more, once I die, those resists drop to 45%? I'm guessing also it is a display bug that it won't show up right? It doesn't actually display as 45% once you die right? It would still display as 75%, even though you guys are sure it drops to 45%. Are you also saying it is in every single case, every game, every realm? The very first time you die, it drops your anya quest resists off your character for the remainder of the game? That is something that is so easy to test, so I will get to it. 30% resists is so huge, that it would definitely be noticable. Also, nobody has ever mentioned it, anywhere in any clan game, or forum on West that I have ever seen. Seems strange that it is there, and nobody has ever mentioned it. I also don't like the subtle condensending implications that I am somehow not an experienced dueler because of such things. I'm confident in duels vs anybody, no matter who they are so... Lets keep this respectful

All I really have to do is duel a Trap sin with exactly 95% light resists in hell with my 4 x Lo shield. He will do almost no damage to me, and it will take quite a while for him to kill me. Then, let hiim kill me, and come back with what you say will be the exact same set up, but this time I will somehow only have 65% resists in hell. The traps should then decimate me in about 2 seconds.

Simple test, lets see if your right

To be continued...

reno666

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#143

Sep 29 2004 09:37am

wu-banger: The Anya bug is actually in the bug report for 1.10. Supposedly corrected but peeps keep saying it's not, so looking forward to your tests (also, it doesn't seem like they're being condescending)...

Kodachi: re: Dragon Flight - I never noticed any speed difference while using my trapper or WWsin. Maybe the casting animation could be affected but I know for a fact (MPQs) that the tele kick speed is the same regardless. I see the advantage of having Tele with DF. DF can be so buggy, sometimes. But giving up that extra poison damage seems to hard. OF course u get some extra physical dmg. from MB...

This post was edited by reno666 on Sep 29 2004 09:38am

Strength_Honor

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#144

Sep 29 2004 12:21pm

Koda's Ghost is much more of a control variant~~

The venom problem can be solved if you pump 15-20 str to allow prebuffing with dusk Bramble...

Of cuz vs Defensive player this prebuffing strategy doesnt really work

wu-banger

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#145

Sep 29 2004 12:41pm

Well that does bring up another interesting point. Bramble sins can easily keep enigma/valk/spider in chest, to throw on vs those few characters that having extra cast and teleport would help. Remember, this is a rich mans build, so having those items in chest isn't a big deal really. However, Ghost sins cannot. You wouldn't have nearly enough str to put bramble on when you lose your enigma that your character was built around, unless you did what the poster above says, and pump str just to pre buff. I don't think you would do that. Also, pre buffing with bramble and taking it off takes away half of the benifits of it, and would not be worth doing anyway. You have to actually wear the item when it is a % poison damage item to actually get the full benifit from it. It is not the same as pre buffing with + skill gear, which you do not have to keep on during the duel. You would probably be just as well off casting venom with enigma on for the 2 skill levels. I'd have to test it, but buffing with bramble and then taking it off wouldn't be that great.

Bramble sins can be both. You could easily be venom vs melee's, and ghost varient vs casters. Ghost sins are hand cuffed to always using enigma and would always be fighting an uphill battle vs any really strong melee characters.

This post was edited by wu-banger on Sep 29 2004 12:51pm

Kodachi

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#146

Sep 29 2004 01:42pm

wu-banger, yes anya bug always works on every realm, in every game.
just do what I said about equipping ur bramble sin with ghost set-up and tell me how you like it.
until then, gl.

wu-banger

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#147

Sep 29 2004 03:13pm

I don't know man. After doing my lightning tests, it seems that WEST has no Anya bug. Also, i've been asking around quite a bit, in channels, and on forum, and nobody yet has ever heard of the anya bug. Is it possible that it is a D2JSP urban legend?

I'm going to do a similiar test with poison javalin, and a 4 X gul shield. I think since poison is the same duration over time, it will be easier to just time the results. But I didn't die any quicker the second time around when doing the lightning test. I know light sentry has a huge variation in damage, but I did quite a few trials. It seemed clear that it was the same death time in all the trials. Considering the big difference between 95% resists and 65% resists, I was expecting to see a clear difference, as I'm sure would you. I didn't see that difference at all. Maybe the test was flawed.

I'll get back to you when I find someone who will test with poison for more consistancy.

This post was edited by wu-banger on Sep 29 2004 03:15pm

viper_555

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#148

Sep 29 2004 06:11pm

thx this was an awesome guide.

Kodachi

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#149

Sep 29 2004 07:03pm

QUOTE (wu-banger @ Sep 29 2004, 09:13 PM)

anya bug does exist.
Are you sure you have doen anay quests?

shamackdude

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#150

Sep 30 2004 09:38am

anya bug does exist in west
i tested wit my socr that has perfect 95% light resist and my friend's trapper, trapp barely hurt me, but after i died, trap hurt so much.
i did the same wit to foher, it hurts more after u died

This post was edited by shamackdude on Sep 30 2004 09:38am

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