It can be an answer to my former question, but I still take it as not complete. As heightened as they become, lvl 0-1 MB will make you weaker in a duel like a hammer or a necro. I would not like an intermediate char between ghost and a trapper that does less vs those 2. As much as ltraps are cool, they wont do as good as 20 MB does game play wise.

edit. also if you have so hightened spider senses, why not just take 102 fcr and max mb trapper. Who could win that, why bother with pathetic WW.
edit2. a pic that enlivens this discussion with azn :
put com instead of ***, go damn auto correct
Can someone explain to me how can i paste this stupid link to be functional as a fucking picture "http://verydemotivational.files.***/2011/03/demotivational-posters-spidermans-punching-jesus-on-a-unicyle.jpg"

Basically its about your arguments being invalid.

This post was edited by monSt4r on Apr 17 2012 06:03pm

The truth.

Also what I wrote up.

Yea I agree but at least I can see how not playing with shadow might help your play.. wheras I cant really see why shadow is "op", the reasons you gave are what make shadow good sure, but its not really what I'd call op...

Kinna similarly golem gives mass slow + minion stack and has no casting delay, but its surely not OP

This post was edited by Jeebus666 on Apr 17 2012 05:46pm

i do use trapper.... it comes with spider/standard 40life rep/75% block, 50% dr, 102fcr setup

but i also use ghost (preferred)

reasoning is because trapper gets boring as hell

I wouldn't go as far as saying it's overpowered but it is REALLY good, so if he feels that it is a little unfair in some match-ups then I can understand.

440 mana seems low

I understand this, but I don't understand how can you make a hybrid/guide without MB on 65FCR and expect it to be "best 1v1 GM" or even be called a good build. I find this hard to believe and always had discussions with you about this. This was not what I wanted to know from the questions above, but it kinda came along your explanations. (I also had a question similar to all of this, but you never responded on that subject)

That guide is just an item showboating, nothing cool about it. That is why that "spider" build was more interesting to me, not because it is a better build (which it is), but because play wise it works without 100kfg (vs lower players). If you wanna make a 65fcr assassin, 20MB is the place to start the buildup. Even with higher fcr this still implies (there are fire blast trappers around, but that build is weaker to MB variant, tho it should be noted it exists).Overall all the items and other sorceries won't make up for it on 65 FCR. Spider is maybe not a hybrid (it's more of a pure trapper), but it accepts the facts that the hybridization on 65 fcr without MB simply won't work, and on 102 fcr the WW will lose too much gunpower anyways.

Just delete that stickied guide, call it a lie and I will be happy (over exaggeration, don't get insulted please)
There are 2 better options than a hybrid, both ghost and a trapper, and this should be explained when explaining hybrid.
Hybrid is like an expensive toy for rich jsp-ers that want to have all in one swiss army knife. But you can't kill a boar with a swiss knife, maybe carve something up or open a bottle or two, so just go straight for the rambo knife that trap/ghost provide.

shadow on its own isn't really overpowered but ghost with a shadow vs nonblock casters sort of is. that's why i don't really like ghosts: they have some very easy matchups (compared to trappers) and some very hard matchups (compared to trappers) but barely any matchups that are balanced (and they're really boring to play against too)



meh, imo trap is much more interesting gameplay-wise (with and vs) than any whirling sin. whirl just cuts the possible tactics the opponents can use and forces them to play more defensive instead of staying closer, which makes the duel more boring for me, and I don't really see what about whirl makes it so interesting to use anyway

This post was edited by tudey on Apr 18 2012 05:57am

Yep, ghost is such a good anti caster that most of the casters won't even play against you. So you have "anti-caster character" that is left with dueling paladins, barbarians and occasionally necromancers which is all at the boring end of the spectrum (necro can be fun tho). Also I take necro and hammer as a balanced duel, only it's rather boring, but who likes dueling hammerdin anyways.
I can understand that dueling a ghost can be perceived as boring, but since ghost is having at the same time a very fun time with lots of skills involved I only take it that those chars are really "3 skill boring".

edit. btw you can then take barbarian instead of a ghost, you have a lot harder caster and amazon matchups and even harder-next to impossible hard matchups.
It can be basically translated : when starting d2, you can chose "easy" mode with ghost, or go "hard"/"veteran" mode with BvC. BvC proves no benefits over ghost, besides tvt.

This post was edited by monSt4r on Apr 18 2012 06:09am

well yea at least mb nec v ghost is pretty balanced i guess, maybe vita nec too if he's quite defensive and good. guess they can be pretty fun too but maybe not so much for the opponent^^

I don't think using a lot of skills equals to fun. skills are just tools, having more tools usually does enable more tactics and approaches to the duel but its not guaranteed. ghost does use a lot of different skills but it doesn't really have many different tactics and approaches (vs the same class, like lets say necro). basicly the only way to kill them is to chase them and hit them with whirl or dclaw. you might have many skills but there's not really many ways to apply them differently

in contrast lets say in nec v trap if we exclude golem, bone armor and bo skills you'll end up with like maybe 4 skills to use for the duel (and you can restrict yourself to just say spear and tele if you want to) but those 4 skills offer a lot of different tactics to win the duel with. even just using tele and spear can be really interesting


about that barb vs ghost thing, you might be right. but you can also choose to take a trapper (which is more similar to ghost gameplay than barb) or nec or druid or zon or something else

This post was edited by tudey on Apr 18 2012 06:24am