Yeah I can understand you pointing it based on preference, but like I said, it just seems a little counter productive. :| Reasoning is always subjective, but I believe it should be consistent.

well.. vs all, and in gvg, I'd go with maxed mb.
don't you think it helps in getting unanswered whirls when your shadow mbs them while they are setting traps or doing whatever.

also why would you dflight to get the kill on necros? teledclaw is faster if you can get a lock, if you get them down to 1 hp then ph them.

but yes try things out. gameplay testing will let you know what you like most. try playing without dflight stated and see if you really miss it all that much.

I didn't even notice his 18 mindlbast o.o.
Lol @ not WSM bugging.

haha i already tried it without. i hate playing without df. i dont use it often, but i like to have it there every once in a while when i see a great opportunity for a clean hit + follow up. teled/dclaw works but would require a lock (its easier to just spam a well timed df for instant ko once the nec is low)

as for phammer, spirit shield prevents me from being able to kill with this due to magic sorb, and mindblast is nulled from bone armor. I basically have to get in a physical attack

again, for the lvl 18 vs lvl 20 mindblast, i'll let you know what i think by the end of this week at latest. its kidna hard to tell with vs all since my ghost kinda kills casters regardless lol. the main part that im concerned with will be to see if i can still beat top ghosts as easily with a 45 life shadow gc compared to 3x 32020s

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Jul 26 2011 11:34am

VS

when using gore:

switch 7x 3/20/20 with 2x12fhr shadows and a 3/20/5 to achieve the 27FHR bp

lost: 140 hard life 140 hard ar and 25 dex (equals 75 effectiv life)

you will end up with 80 dex using raven + str ring w/o these 25 dex
for a eth runic you need 105 dex (--> beeing the highest dex req you will see cause I wouldnt use a non eth claw anyways)
means you loose 25 hard stat points = 75 life 20 dex can be proveded by the circ theoretically

gain:

almost a half um rune for each claw (opens one sox on the fools for a Loum combo)
almost a lo rune for each claw (ofc not as good as hl but still a boost)
15% cb on each claw


imo the loos at the defencive point is worth the dmg boost
i would replace one of the um runes with a lo on the fools claw (at least when using this setup)
and use a visi to replace the lost ar might be overrated but i would also not underrate it (aspecially in combination with a fools)

E: the 25 str ring could be replaced with a 10fcr 3ll 5 str 15 dex 60life 120 ar
like this we miss 10 dex and 7 strengh (to wear the eth spirit monarch)

This post was edited by MoXeR on Jul 26 2011 12:23pm

I use a 113 Dex Required Feral claw, I will have to stat some dex anyways...

Let me do this for my character specific: If I use gores, I will not need to stat points (I currently have ~9Points into Strength to use spirit). But I will lose 25 Dex. Adding in the 15Dex ring instead of the Str one (I will have 132Str/146 for eth spirit), I will end up using 15 total stat points (14str, 1dex) for a total of 45 life

If I were to use 2x 12fhr/shadow Grand Charms, I would end up switching out my 2x 45 life Shadow GCs instead of all the 32020s. 6x 32020s = 120life, 2x 45 = 90life. Then I will lose another 20life from the loss of a SC for a 3/20/5fhr, but keep my ar.

90+20+45 = 155 Life (Before Bo). After BO, I estimate I will lose around 250-300life?

I would keep my UmUm Fools, and gain the benefits from Gores. I think with 37% from highlords and 15% from gores that will be enough. If i need more, I could always just slap on the gface (and switch on 2x 45s + 32020 to get my life back)


Pros:
+15% CB
+15% DS
+10% OW

Cons:
-250-300Life
-2 Shadow Skills (Block and DR may suffer)
-Kick damage

I would have to test them and see how they work out... but from the looks of it, doesn't seem TOO bad... However, how much will the extra 15% here and there help me is the question O.o Unless you plan on keeping circlet on 24/7, gface, already offers 35% CB (1/3 hits) and 15% DS (37+15 = 52%, Crit = 23%)

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Jul 26 2011 12:51pm

the 7x 3/20/20 need to go in order to fix the 2 shadow sks you loose from no using dancers
gface is nice when u dont need the mobility but im talking only about the mainsetup here
also imo the gores are > gface cause cb is greatly reduced on pvp (at the point of actual dmg output) and 15% ds is on both of them but i do not loose fcr when i use gore+ we get higher ow

since we focus on pys dmg i would switch that Um for a Lo cause we want our opponent to be dead in one stomp and not bleed him down
instead of 25% ow on chaos you would have 35% and 15%ds (and hl dont know how this is calced)
and on fools you would have 35% aswell instead of 50 but an additional 40%ds (calced slightly different though but i do not have the formular)

Yes you loose life and life equals dmg
but it can be also calculated the other way arround

This post was edited by MoXeR on Jul 26 2011 12:54pm

how much strength do you have without eni equipped? you use mp now right?

or well, looking from your character screen you'd have 103
so use ap eni if you aren't using already, you could probably get it strbugged too. you say you statted 9 str?

This post was edited by tudey on Jul 26 2011 12:53pm

I'm not sure if I'm missing anything, but I get 20 base,20 torch,20 anni,72 enigma =132 strength @lvl99




yea you deff bring up a VERY valuable point here...

And if i use this as my main AND gvg setup, I would not have to worry about statting those 2 points to cover up for the loss of shadow dancers as i'll be using circlet. the 2points from circlet, makes up for the 2points lost from dancers.

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Jul 26 2011 12:55pm

no i asked without eni and with that current setup

but yea it seems to be 103 although 93 without chaos
you had 9 statted str?