Quote (quicksand @ Jul 26 2011 05:42pm)

How come ?

Primary claw = ias taken from
Other sources = 20 ias (highlords)

Runic 40 ias + 20 ias = 60.

And what do i lose if i dont wsm ? I know that ar only applies to the fools claw.

Quote (Ziecheik @ Jul 26 2011 12:50pm)

runic/suwayyah standard equipping = -15wsm = 75ias bp
now you could reach the bp with 40runic + 20highlords + 40/15 helm, but then you lose the bp if you get 10% slowed, and furthermore don't have that heavy ias stack vs golem
if you are already using suwayyah chaos and a fools runic you should be wsm bugging, you get -45wsm, 19ias bp, tons of ias stacked vs slow, and your fools stays primary in this setup

if you were using suwayyah fools/runic chaos then yes I would vouch standard equipping and reaching 75ias bp, but if its the other way around there isn't much reason not to wsm bug. <.<



@Bui: solid guide overall as usual, kinda wondering why your skill layout only shows 18 points in mb. really? get those 2 points. if you don't wanna change skillers take 2 points out of fade or venom, your call. or if you need to keep a wb%, maybe add +1skiller and take one point out of wb+fade so you have 20mb. really 20mb is godlike.
also wondering.. on your guillaumes setup do you keep wb% or no? Im not really a fan of that setup but whatever I can see it working vs some. personally I'd just keep 65fcr and take advantage of outstunlocking and getting unanswered hits more.

Quote (quicksand @ 26 Jul 2011 17:56)

Now im a bit lost.I though all this time that 42 is the breakpoint.
Chaos is in suwayyah and placed on secondary slot.As i know , secondary claw doesnt matter when calculating speed.

Quote (quicksand @ Jul 26 2011 05:56pm)

Now im a bit lost.I though all this time that 42 is the breakpoint.
Chaos is in suwayyah and placed on secondary slot.As i know , secondary claw doesnt matter when calculating speed.

Quote (quicksand @ Jul 26 2011 01:08pm)

Yeah , wsm'ed them and the speed in higher.
Weird....i thought all this time that no matter the claws , the breakpoint is 42.

Quote (quicksand @ Jul 26 2011 04:56pm)

Now im a bit lost.I though all this time that 42 is the breakpoint.
Chaos is in suwayyah and placed on secondary slot.As i know , secondary claw doesnt matter when calculating speed.

Quote (Azn Masta @ Jul 26 2011 04:58pm)

I've personally tried actually. As much as I HATE to... after countless tests and duels, sadly, I found that gface > shako and circlet in ghost v ghost. and with that being said, i decided i would build it into my guide itself

As for the setup with gface, yes i do keep my 62% block and 50% DR.

Now for the lvl 20 vs lvl 18 mindblast... i believe that sins shadows use skills based on how many points are placed into them. but a ghost's shadow can only use mindblast really... ghost dont max out anything else that the shadow can use. so regardless if lvl 18 or lvl 20, the shadow should still use it just as much (correct me with some math if im wrong here)

Do you really think that adding 1 more shadow over 3x 32020s is worth it? My current AR is only 14.7k with fools and 6.1k with my 65%fcr setup. and 14.1 with fools and 5.7 with 42%fcr

If if got rid of 3 more 32020s, i would lose a good 200-300 chunk of AR to both claws, and as we determined previously, the ar for both claws act independently. im not sure if i can still effectively hit stuff with around 5.4k ar :(... or at least if its worth going that low to add a measly 2 more points into mb

Quote (Ziecheik @ Jul 26 2011 01:13pm)

its 42ias for runic/runic (-30wsm)
the secondary claw ias doesn't matter, but the base speed matters since the ias bp depends on the AWSM (average) in standard equipping or if wsm bugging then its not average and you get a combined speed faster than either of the claws using runic/suwayyah.


err no. more mb the better. 20 is better than 18. a bigger difference between skills just means more spam more often. you want shadow to use mb every tele ideally, its not going to, but you want it as close to that as possible.
I see you are looking to keep that 62% block and fade on the guillaumes setup.. although like.. 2% dr isn't a big deal honestly, but I can see you want to keep it. so ya, either +1 gc or actually.. do you use dflight? maybe just skip it and get those 2 points for mb and keep everything else.
would also make shadow less likely to ever want to dflight, which is a good thing since you always want shadow to mb at dflight range.
edit: also its not just hard points. +3mb on both claws is godlike on priv realms.

Quote (Tails chao @ Jul 26 2011 01:16pm)

meh, it just seems kind of counter-productive to skill dflight to catch slippery casters where you could just max mb with those points to make shadow AA mb them instead, which is a lot better lol.