"against good people" applying i only play against noobs? And "im not hoping to have a insanely high ww dmg, its mostly the OW, and WWing in this case is more to control the movement/game and lock ofc."

Yes iknow if you both max mb and one uses 9 shadow sks obviously they will have more. More in SM doesnt make it cast mb more often, more in MB does though. And yeah a high SM is nice, but not really needed, theres a reason why you only put 1. in SM






I meant I used gt claws (fools/chaos) when i played as a regular hyb, so less dmg. Glad you agree on the trap part, and i agree aswell that WW can be very helpful offensively, i played with a decent WW/AR before so get where you are coming from. Its just everyone will sorb you atleast with TG, and you guys that havent tried 11kish trap dmg on a "hyb" you should really try it out. Can always switch the sks back Fade/60% claw block is the greatest loss imo as you mentioned. But fade claws (for tvt), and you only really need 50% dr against baba's + bowas imo and this is when you use Maxblock setup with SS

Alot of people have said that my WW is going to be to low, therefor useless, but i can only tell from what ive experienced, this new setup works way better overall (also against skilled opponents :>)

i also noticed you are a euro player. that means if you want, you can take off a few shad gcs for trap gcs and use bbelt for the dr instead. but maxing venom is key and vital to any ww sin build

and honestly, i use ww so often (i came from a ghost background) that i feel the higher ww damage is pretty much a must have. 9 and 11k traps is still traps. and while the damage is better, it wont make or break the build. having venom and not having it on the other hand, will

so basically at least aim for 59%-60% claw block and 50% dr if you are going to use trap gcs. the only reason its ok is IF you use bbelt. otherwise, stick with shadows

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Sep 6 2009 05:47pm

Certainly 20 mb for tvts, we can all agree on that right? The SM casting it all the time, REALLY makes a huge difference, especially against casters.

And just to let you know, i can do tri whirls and dod pretty well, as i said i only just switched to this setup, so ive had some experience with it I dont just lay the traps and camp behind them, its possible to play offensive with this build, actually its made for it. Theres no real difference in playstyle only that more trap dmg, less WW dmg. Its like a trapper, but with 50/25 OW and Whirls for movement, lock etc.

Oh and a trapper has a lot of ways to stunlock aswell, ls, wof, dt, fb, sm. I agree that WW is one of the best locks, thats why im using it

if you want a tvt mainly then just play a trapper. its better overall than using a chaos and ww away defensively. in tvt sins are supporting character who mindblast and stun while other people kill. wwing like that offensive in a tvt = you wont be able to help your team with stunnning. the shadow master casts A LOT more i agree, but overall if you want high mb and damage, just use a trapper and switch on chaos when you duel druids or something. dont make a build based off 1 pt venom and chaos

if you want a hybrid and want to use it in tvt, i recommend using the 9k damage trap one i have on the 2nd screenshot. the higher ww damage one does better in 1v1 situations.

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Sep 6 2009 05:51pm

I agree that in your case WW is especially great. Most hybrids on eu dont have that amount of WW dmg you have without prebuffing lol

I see where you are coming from, one question, have you ever tried the difference between 9k and 11k? I thought the same as you, but when i tried it, it surprised me alot.

I think 11k LS with 1 venom can be very good. They are better for team duels but I consider them to be worse in 1v1 (and less fun to play), primarily because one of your biggest problems will be other sins and wwhybrid wins imo. Tgods does hurt (much more than wisp, due to that extra 40 dmg reduce that is applied after pvp penalties), but it isn't a huge deal because you should be able to win most duels without even using LS lol.

thats my point exactly. he sorta wants a trapper though and wants to use ww to keep a lock to prevent wsg. its a good idea (and infact i've done it before when when i play a trapper) but in the end its either a ghost,trapper or hybrid. im not really into the "spider" style.



i have tried the difference. and the trap is noticable but again, as i said in the into. what makes a successful "hybrid" is balance. what you are proposing is high traps and low ww. i dunno how it works for euro players, but im going to assume that you can stil get around 3.8-3.9k ww damage and then get the 9ktraps. its pretty good.

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Sep 6 2009 05:56pm

actually yes, if you're using a spider's whirlwind offensively and it's working that is exactly what I will say. even defensively it doesn't even work properly since they can use the duration you are whirlwinding in as an opening, it just doesn't do enough damage to offset the opening it gives if you're relying on pure OW damage (compared to a 2.7k ww with highlords).

the reason people put 1 into SM is because it's not good enough to be prioritised, but if it's a bonus then that's a point to consider.

A good trapper shouldnt not get hitted by ww :< but yeah, i see what you mean. Maybe my WW just wasnt strong enough before to have a decent view on it.




Hmm.. !

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Guys i truly respect your opinions, i think i will do one thing. Before i remake (As i am 20 venom now) Just try to use fools(um+lo) and chaos (suwayyah) and maybe a few shadow sks, or keep the 9 and see how that goes. So same idea, but keeping the 20 Venom and using a suwayyah, might even test it with 9 shadow sks lol

Anyways youve given me alot to think about, i still 100% prefer what it is now, than what it was before, my sin that is, but ill try with a better WW setup and see if it changes my mind.

btw "PEW PEW, SPIDERS RULE" ;>

I wouldn't recommend Lo on your fools unless you have some insane eth + ed claw.