And/or more str on circ (currently use diff circ with 18 str or gulli with 15 str) and less stated.

the mb test jeebus showed here obviously shows a big difference but has anyone actually done tests/played with 17 mb (or 15 or 18 or something close to max) compared to 20 mb build and noticed a big difference?
this exponential shadow mb cast curve has been brought up for a couple years now but is there good enough proof that it is like that? I've always just believed it makes a big enough difference and used 20p on all my sins but does it actually help enough? I usually feel that sometimes my shadow is mbing a lot and sometimes barely any, it seems to have quite a bit of variability. would be interesting to see test results of 17/20 or gameplay experiences with the two builds, anyone?

Tbh he has 20 (3 skill on claw). But true, I don't know the difference between 17 and 20, all I know lvl 1 is so shit that 20 is a must.
I tried once level 10 for a short period, didn't give it much testing since the char was a cheap hybrid, so it automatically sucked.

you mean 17 hard points + 3 mb on claw or 20 hard points and saving 3 points from some other skill by getting it on a claw?
I remember someone tested the difference of 1 hard point mb compared to 1 hard point mb with 100 mb claw or something similar and they showed similar results, so +mb on claw doesn't seem to count for shadow mb frequency

but yea i think ghosts should use 20 mb anyway even if the shadow mb difference is super slamm, plenty of skill points to use
trapper probably is better off with 20 mb as well or at least high level mb, but it could be interesting to see how much the few last points really help here
hybrid can't really get 20 mb and most use 1 mb build but seeing the difference between like lvl 1, lvl 2, lvl 3, lvl 5, lvl 10 or so in a test situation would be interesting. the current hypothesis suggests that there is not a huge increase in shadow mb frequency at lowish mb hardpoint levels but if say lvl 5 mb is significally more mbs than lvl 1 mb then it would probably be worth it on a hybrid

This post was edited by tudey on Apr 17 2012 07:54am

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=17390792&f=87&p=97674257 - ( First page shows a 15 mb test )

and http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=17281262&f=87&p=97122471

Whats interesting from that test drt did is that at level 99, shadow only adds 1.8x more than 20 mind blast ( which is a bit odd if its an exponential curve I think ..? ), altho he said he wasnt so precise about it so I guess darcanegel's one was better.

This post was edited by Jeebus666 on Apr 17 2012 01:12pm

x^(1/2) exponential graph is most likely the case. i have a18 hard points, and I tested 18 vs 20 and didn't get a noticeable difference.

y = x^(1/2) isnt exponential , but yea the derivitive of that function is 1/(2sqrt(x)) which altho it is decreasing, starts really high and then drops which maybe fits how level 99 mb only had 18 mindblasts, but there's a big increase from 1 - 20 mindblasts

This post was edited by Jeebus666 on Apr 17 2012 01:56pm

no need max mindblast if you are gg at locking. Only noobs need to depend on shadow master mbing crutch

Sure thing with 65 fcr, gl that's why there are successful trappers with 65fcr.
I finally can understand now why you like dragon flight. Annoying chars you cannot catch ? NP df them till they die.

No need shadow master if youre gg at stomping. Only noobs rely on shadow master clutch.