Quote (gel87 @ Jun 4 2024 08:27pm)

U need 63 ias if i remember correct without Fana.

So you can run Loh + hl + dual Grief ba
Eth reapers might merc

There are other versions as well.
Eth death ba is solid, but then u need faith merc.
U can then mix that with lacerator for frenzy amp, or double throw at swap.
If its still the case all the ds/cb in main hand will affect offhand as well. But dno it thats patched.
Maby Even eth death ba + beast ba, with eth reapers might merc.

Quote (maGeneSs @ Jun 4 2024 09:04pm)

hmm, so it works like for example amazon and its just about overall ias from gear?

so 63 ias from anywhere?

cuz i kinda get up to 80 already from two griefs?

or doesnt offhand ias count?

still pretty confused here

cause with that setup i kinda only reach 5fpa, while 4 (or 3?) should be fastest

Quote (gel87 @ Jul 11 2022 11:15pm)

I will make a new topic with text below as i had 3 faults/flaws in main post.

There are so many topics about the subject after patch 2.4.3.
So lets clear up some stuff:

Here is a good topic with early testing and info:
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=95636119&f=148


Wirl attackspeed is now is affected by:
- Ias (in every slot possible, offhand and onhand, each wep individual, wepons cannot borrow the other wep ias)
- Skill ias (fana, bos)
- Wsm (the wsm is individual)
- Slow:
* chilled = 50% unless ur not chilled where it is 0%
* gear slow (cleglaws, arach, blackhorns, a bunch of wepons)
* skill slow (clay golem, impale, decrepificy, holy freeze)

Slow from gear has a max cap of 50%
Chilled is always 50% if active
Skill slow stack abs has individual 50% max cap each source (decreap, impale, holy freeze, golem)

Theese things adds up to something we call EIAS (Effective Increased Attackspeed) by this formula:
EIAS = floor(120*IAS/(120+IAS)+SkillIas-WSM-SLOW)
The Upper EIAS Cap = 75
The Lower EIAS Cap is most likely -85

The formula for fpa is as follow:
1 handed wepons and 2 handed swords:
FPA = RoundUp(7*256/floor(256*(100+EIAS)/100))-1

2 handed wepons:
FPA = RoundUp (9*256/floor(256*(100+EIAS)/100))-1

Assassin:
FPA = RoundUp(6*256/floor(208*(100+EIAS)/100))-1

From here we get theese relevant EIAS breakpoints, i start at 0, Else there would be to many for me to bother listing:

Relevant Eias caps:
1 handed weps and 2 handed swords
EIAS /// FPA
-12 /// 7
1 /// 6
17 // 5
41 // 4

2 handed wepons:
EIAS /// FPA
-9 /// 9
1 /// 8
13 /// 7
29 /// 6
51 /// 5

Assassin:
EIAS /// FPA
0 /// 7
6 /// 6
24 /// 5
39 /// 4

Other important info:
Theese fpa is each wep.
So if u have 2 wepons you must devide FPA by 2.
4/2 = 2 FPA

Diablo runs in a way at 25 fps.
25/2FPA = 12,5 attacks per second.
25/4FPA = 6,25 attacks per second.
And so on.

When you dual wield, each wepon hit at its excact frame. So if both are 4FPA they hit simultanious 4 frames after you u initiate the wirlwind skill. Then again at 8, 12, 16, 20, 24.

History:
The reason wirlwind sucked in D2R prior to patch 2.4.3 was due to the fact that the 2 free hits at frame 4 and 8 was removed, which ment at 4fpa attack you could not hit before the 12th frame. Thats nearly half a second with no attacks. Which lead wirl to hit late, and short wirls to Fail completely.

Important:
Now wirlwind has 1 free hit that dont care about your EIAS. Which happen at frame 4.
This in theory mean you can be affected by decrepificy + clay golem + chilled + holy freeze + 50% gear slow, yet still have max wirlwind speed as Long as you make super short and tight wirls.
However i think wirl need to move a little prior to you beeing able to initiate a new one, which means you most likely would fail at that ammount of slow. But keep it in mind, short and tights wirls, esepesially when slowed.

So to sum it all up:
DHA's 63 fcr bvc guide is still best.
You can supplement that with throw or widowmaker, and general none 63fcr gear, or Even build bva setup based upon that. Its not hard to figure out that if you go shield, you go stormshield.

There is another guide which shows every wirl pattern and range very well! I dont remember which it is, but i will link it if i find it!

Now lets look upon some setups based on what we know about wirls attackspeed:

41 EIAS is needed for 2 x 4fpa wepons.
For pvp this means:
Grief ba + Beast ba berserker axes:
Fana lvl 9 = 29 skill ias.
And then even the lowest ias roll on grief hits 4fpa:
Floor(120*30/(120+30)+29-0-0) = 53 EIAS
53-10 = 43 which means we can handle arach slow(10%)

Infact if u have 2 berzerker axes, and 1 of them is beast, then the lowest ias needed to hit that break is: 14%.
So for those of u that somehow sits on a full pvp barb, just missing grief ba, yes u can reach 4fpa wirl with ur eth death ba + beast ba with only highlord. But once u get slowed you will drop in fpa.

Beast will hit its breakpoint as those rolls 40ias.

Anyway, we know there is slow in this game, and we gonna focus on grief + beast for pvp first, as that is the best setup:

Lvl 9 fana, 2 x berzerker axes:
* 30 ias can stay at 4fpa vs 12% slow (arach)
* 40 ias can stay at 4fpa vs 18% slow
* 54 ias can stay at 4fpa vs 25% slow (cleglaws)
* 60 ias can stay at 4fpa vs 28% slow
* 78 ias can stay at 4 fpa vs 35% slow (cleglaws + arach)

Holy freeze, decreap, clay golem etc are 50+% slow. So as we can see we have to give up the 4 fpa wirl and drop down to 5fpa wirl, and make sure our wirls are short to make best use of the free hits at 4th frame.

For bva/bvb (none fana berserker axe) :
63 ias is needed for 4fpa.
88 ias is needed for 4 fpa vs 10% slow.

So bva etc may want to make a grief in war spike to be a little bit more rubust vs slow, just know u also loose 1 range adder then. Im assuming you already have axe mastery maxed.

Phaseblade:
Phaseblade is 1 EIAS faster than berserker axes with lvl 9 fana. So just use same table...

Pvm:
Well most likely ur using grief Phaseblade to avoid repairs...
So even the lowest ias roll grief will hit the 4fpa frame as Long as your not slowed.
However lets account for decrepificy curse (50% slow) :
You would need 125 ias to maintain that 4fpa breakpoint, so most likely you wont have that and we then look upon what ias that is needed for the 5fpa breakpoint when under effect of decrificity:
54 ias would be needed.

Assassin:
I would suggest you run runic talons (-30wsm).
However if ur rich + prefer to stay at stash 5 minuts prior to every different char you duel, you May optimalize with other bases. Just use the formula... Just dont forget the trap laying breakpoints which are actually harder to reach.

You can now initiate wirl directly after forexample leap.

Quote (gel87 @ Jun 4 2024 02:31pm)

History:
The reason wirlwind sucked in D2R prior to patch 2.4.3 was due to the fact that the 2 free hits at frame 4 and 8 was removed, which ment at 4fpa attack you could not hit before the 12th frame. Thats nearly half a second with no attacks. Which lead wirl to hit late, and short wirls to Fail completely.

Quote (Kabryxis @ Jun 5 2024 05:00am)

fyi this wasn't the reason. there was a bug that allowed whirlwind to end before the fourth frame. if you got to the fourth and eighth frame, it would work as expected. you just couldn't short whirl due to the bug.

Quote (Bradymuck @ Jun 7 2024 12:06am)

Id go grief beast if damage is close.

Fanat helps with ar against bosses and extra ias if slowed. Also have cb on beast.

I'd also switch arreats to guilliames for more cb and dungos to soe for mdr/leech. And stats ring will need mana leech if using grief and/or beast.