But you can't be a hardcore player in EVE, there is no such thing. The only thing you can do to better yourself in EVE is to spend more time making ISK, which I don't find to be all that entertaining. Spending real money on a game that you play to make virtual money is ridiculous. So the best players aren't really the hardcore players, or the players who spend a lot of time playing, they are just the players who train skills the longest and train them in the proper order, which really isn't hard, especially with all the programs out there to tell you what to train and / or train it for you. So it breaks the game down into a game of spreadsheets and dropdown menus. Combat is not skill intensive, you look a ship build up online, put it together, then in the actual fight you click the buttons to turn on the weapons and just wait for the bad guy to die, or pull a dropdown menu and run away. Players try to argue that there is more to it than that, that somehow the battle system is complicated and ability intensive, but it is not, and never will be from the looks of things; everything is static.. points on a grid.. and the rules are always the same. You could play the entire game with just spreadsheets and graph paper, the graphics are rather unnecessary.

That's where the big difference is. In WoW, if you take the time to be good, if you are 'hardcore' and learn to do things right and better than other players, you will get into a better guild, you will then help that guild beat the harder bosses, and you will then be rewarded with the "good stuff" and advance further into harder and harder challenges. It is progressive. You aren't grinding for virtual currency constantly, as the currency has relatively little value, and that value is for the most part unrelated to performance. An expensive ship in EVE is a huge advantage. A huge amount of gold in WoW really doesn't make you a more effective player. In WoW there is essentially an infinite amount of challenge, as only a tiny percentage of players kill the newest bosses, so everyone else has something reasonable to strive for, be it the next 2 bosses if you are casual or the next 20 if you are hardcore. Players are rewarded for their skill, not their play time. I could create a WoW character right now, get to max level quickly, and within fairly short order be doing high end bosses. I don't have to wait 4 years in real time for skills to train, and I can take myself to the top at my own pace, rather than one set by a company whose main goal is to make you pay them for a long as possible.

I played WoW for 2 years and played EvE for a while as well. WoW entertained me, even though it turned me into a zombie.

EVE really seemed like at some point in the future it would be fun, but no matter what I did it ended up being about as fun as doing taxes, even with 20b isk in hand.

Its like a hobby.

You dont use your bike 24/7 do you? Then thats just waste?

Its about what you are willing to do to have a good hobby.

And EVE is a very nice hobby. So many people are happy about paying for a good game.


/edit

Speaking of WoW is just ridiculous.

Here we have a game with a PvP system which requires no skill whatsoever because its filled with RNG.

We have countless timesinks so Blizzard have enough time to put out an expansion where you essentially start all over again.
You play WoW for a year and then a new expansion comes out, and everything that is old is useless.

You talk about getting "hardcore" and getting new gear in WoW.
Problem is EVERYONE has the same gear because they do the same instances or the same PvP.
And when you have your items, then its back to waiting for a new expansion because the game lacks so much.

I cannot fathom why 11 million people are still subscribed to that game, they must have been brainwashed or something.

This post was edited by AnsuZ on Mar 4 2009 10:12am

Fewer than like 2% do the top instances and have the best gear, it's not even close to everyong having the same, because people are on different levels at different times. How many Ravens are there in EVE loaded up with Arablast launchers and shield boosters / resist mods? There is no variety. The expansions do sort of reset things but you still enjoy the hell out of yourself inbetween them and have all new things to enjoy once they hit. And a reset is nice to have, rather than EVE where the players from years ago will always be way, way ahead of the newer players. People can go back to WoW at the expansions and get right back to where they belong based on their skill.

Honestly there is no reason to start playing EVE anew. If you have had an account for a long long time maybe you can have a bit of fun, though the travel time and spreadsheet management takes up most of your time. PvP in EVE is NEVER fair. It basically consists of three or more heavily stacked and specifically equipped pirates blowing up random mission equipped or mining solo pilots as they load out of a gate or play in a belt. Either that or it is BoB flooding a node with ships to crash it and avoid losing a large fleet battle, which are essentially blob fests where you point and click and wait for one side to run away. WoW PVP is instanced, balanced, varying in builds and gear and playing ability, varying in landscape and objectives, with specific rewards for doing it, and a huge variety of players to go against.

There are reasons WoW has 11 million subscribers and is hugely popular and influential.

Likewise, there are reasons EVE has fewer than half the number of players of a lot of MMO's that are still in Beta testing. Having a larger number of players in one monotonous graph paper universe isn't exactly an accomplishment. If the game was genuinely entertaining for all players new and old, they likely wouldn't have to resort to using a single server cluster to make the game seem "vast". The WoW universe is gigantic and varied with only a few thousand players per server, which makes it a lot more fun while still being cozy.

Simply put, WoW is on an entirely different level, far far above where EVE stands. The biggest thing that irks me about EVE is the company responsible for it, which refuses to make the game more accessable, has developers playing within the game and cheating for their buddies in BoB and likely elsewhere, and on top of all of its problems, ups the monthly cost of the game for card buyers / isk users, and charges a full $15.00 a month, justfiying the price by calling the game "a premium product" in one of their statements.

hmm ok

Its because a 5 year old can easily pick up the game and raid endgame(since halfway through BC). I started shortly before BC came out for the 40 man raids and working for gear and showing it off in BGs then they made arenas turned raids into 25 mans made raids so easy it required no thought at all and all gear started to have no differences aside from weapons and its even worse with wotlk(I havent played it because I dont like games where you look the same as everyone else but ive been keeping up with it reading mmochampion). You mention ravens in eve but last time I was over at a buddies house he was showing me his stuff and his warrior looked EXACTLY the same as DK pallys and all the other warriors with exceptions of weapons...ya...huge freaking difference

wow has its fan base because its always keeping its people busy by making their stuff obsolete every few months

Wow was fun the first half of BC when stuff was difficult till it all got nerfed SO new people could sign up lvl to 70 and jump right into content and could use the "takes skill not time played" and "you dont have to grind gold all day" its either that or people that use that excuse were the ones going along for the ride cause they are all buddy buddy with a guild leader while the real raiders take the time to learn the fight and farm/spend the gold to pay for top of the line enchants and gems and lvling a profession for 1 item to help out the guild.

I played a ret pally mostly from the start of BC to my time quitting a month before they actually made the class easy to play so while I agree with the skill part the time part of ur comment is total bull because I had to take the time to farm gold and buy the best things I could to show guilds that I could be good dps...then do better than 80-90% of their "best class" raiders. I didnt have a buddy in a high rank to get me into a raid

so do what i did train skills and buy isk for real mony ... lol (100$$ = 1b, or more depends on the sellers...)

or u can use ur brain ... made 16 m the first day just talking to people...


atm just skilling up... and when my skills completed (in 17 days) it will start to be very fun.... atm i am just crusing araund in 0.0 space doing nothing but exploring....

found a POS so far and a titan and a strange ship... no data on internt for ...



so what they need to make a living also.... evryday u spend like 30 EU for food and drinks and cigarets and goodies and try to caculate that and u can buy a vila on the end of a year ....



for a game like this comparing to wow the 19 bucks is crazy cheap...

This post was edited by mIgY on Mar 5 2009 05:27pm

Quote:"WoW PVP is instanced, balanced, varying in builds and gear and playing ability"

As I read that, I must admit I dont see it quite like you.

Instanced means boring - It is the same BG's all day long, nothing new to see at all.

Balanced - Have you even tried WoW PvP? o.O
There is nothing balanced about it. Certain combos in arena are way to overpowered. And lets not talk about the gear...
But lets... WoW is so gear based it is ridiculous. If you have subpar gear you can almost forget about winning vs an epic geared one, unless your class is the overpowered and he is brainless.
How is that balance?

Variety - Cant say I agree here either. If you want to succeed, you have one specific build, like the thousands of others who want to succeed.
So you never really see anything different than what you know.

Ability - The problem in WoW PvP is RNG. Player skill is capped, at a certain point you just cant get better and you only win because you have RNG on your side.
How great is it to know the reason you won are because you dodged and got crit instead of being superior?


The game has been made so carebear Im speechless. Elite mobs are almost taken out of the game. The heroics are easier than the old Scholo/BRS/Strat instances for christ sake.

There is nothing challenging in playing WoW at all.


But if we take EVE.
Thats when the challenge begins.

You mention Ravens with arbalest and shields.

You must have forgotten how many different items that exist in the world of EVE.
It is so much more fun to equip a ship in EVE than just grinding; PvP, PvE, w/e it is you grind in World of Grindcraft, and there are numerous choices to make a ship work in EVE.
You dont have that freedom in WoW. Either you use arena gear or you dont PvP.

In EVE when you explore you have the chance to fight an opponent right there.

In WoW world PvP is extinct.


So to sum it up.

If you are a space fan, EVE is the best there is.

If you like medieval-like games, pick something else than WoW.

From the things my Friend tells me about WoW, It sounds pretty boring. Long on, group up, raid some town or dungeon, repeat. Maybe the occasional defend the fort form the horde thing.

With Eve, Theres a gazillion different things to do. From Mining to Manufacturing, exploring, Ratting, Archeology, salvaging, Marketing, banking, Hired gun, Massive fleet blobs, pirating, Plexing, Mission running, extortion, Corporation Management... The list goes on.

And for the Ravens with arbalest launchers+active shield tanks: Do you know how long it takes to get to that point? There are Dozens of skill you need to get/learn before you can even thing about it. It took me 2 months to get am assault ship t2 fit. Hoing on 4 months to get a Battleship (Keep in mind i'm combining All required skill training times) =|

In Wow, you can go from 0-80 overnight if you wanted. Then what? Instance? raid? That's pretty much it.

@ The Paying money for virtual money thing:
What do you thing yo do in WoW? you pay $15 a month to train a virtual character, earn gold, Grind missions for gear, etc... That pretty much the same as Eve, Only eve has 1 feature that makes it better than WoW: You can use Eve's "Virtual money" To Pay for your subscription.

Sure the learning curve is near suicide (if you have a very small grasp of economics and math) and it takes a while before you can really do much PvP, But the sheer number of possibilities in eve quickly counter that and makes it a very entertaining and challenging game.

Well, if you're used to leveling up.

Don't try this game.

You don't "Level up" you train. Which takes real time. Say: Train Frigate V will take 5 days with good attributes.

Good thing is, when you're offline, it'll continue training.

The possibilities are endless however.