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Jun 5 2009 03:01pm
So how exactly does dexterity translate into critical hit chance? Is the formula even known?
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Jun 5 2009 03:06pm
Furthermore, if (as I think) enemy dex plays into account, I'd want some data on the stats of mobs and/or their generation parameters.
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Jun 5 2009 03:54pm
setyourselfonfire has a formula in his profile
I don't think it's the right one
you can look at it if you want

otherwise not much is known about it
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Jun 5 2009 05:20pm
Now that setyourselfonfire is a guy by my liking! Actually knows his math unlike 98% of the folks here :/

These values can actually easily be figured out. Just get yourself such-and-such amount of dex, and pound a lvl 70 mob for a while with a rusted axe - whenever you do damage, that's a crit. And as you vary the dexterity, you figure out the formula. Of course that's painfully slow and a lot of work so it'd all be easier if njaguar just posted em like I asked him to o_o.

Here's his formulas

Quote
Ladder Slasher melee damage formula:
Chance of critical hit = attacker's dexterity / (500 + attacker's dexterity) + 0.2 per point of critical strike
CritMultiplier = 200% + 1% per point of attacker's dexterity - 1% per point of defender's dexterity
Maximum CritMultiplier = 300% dmg, Minimum critmultiplier = 100% dmg
Normal attack damage = (0.95+ attacker's strength / 100) x base weapon damage - defense
Critical hit damage = (0.95 + attacker's strength / 100) x base weapon damage x CritMultiplier
* base weapon damage is weapon damage shown with 0 strength, average damage = 5.5 x weapon tier


that means 100 dex = 16% crit rate, and up to 300% damage for a crit, ignoring armor. So 100 dex would increase total damage over 0 dex by 50%.
50 base dex for samurai = 9% crit rate, up to 250% damage for a crit, ignoring armor. So 50 dex would increase total damage over 0 dex by 22%.

So 100 dex would increase total damage over 50 dex by 150/122 => 22%.

50 more dex over 50 = 22% more damage?

With 50 base str, I get 33% more damage from 50 more stat points.

If I have 100 str 50 dex, investing 50 more points in STR will give me 25% more damage still. At 150 str, another 50 points in str only add 20%, but still add 22% with dex.

This is all ignoring mob armor tho. Crits always ignore mob armor, but str makes mob armor block a smaller percentage of your raw damage. With the 300% crit damage cap, and cata mobs not having more than 36 dex, any dex over110 becomes questionable in effect, and above 136 becomes essentially wasted. For single play, the respective values would be 120 and 190. A 150 str 50 dex build will do more damage than a 50 str 150 dex build when ignoring armor.

Max Armor would close enough to:
Level * (1 to 6) * (mobvitality/100 + 1)
Where 1 to 6 stands for robe, padded robe, etc to chainmail, plate mail. Average of 3.5, vitality being (10+lvl/2)

Min armor is Max / 2.5, makes the average Max / 1.4
(lvl/5) * 3.5 * ((10+lvl/2)/100 + 1) / 1.4

So a lvl 50 mob has on average ~33 defense and 35 dex.

say a lvlreq 50 white weapon will do ~70 damage average per hit with 0 str 0 dex.

(critchance -1)(0.95*str + 1) * basedam + critchance*dexmultiplier*basedam

200 str + 0 dex: 203 - 33 = 170 damage per hit
150 str + 50 dex: 0.91*(169-33) + 0.09*2.15*169 = 124 + 33 = 156 damage per hit
125 str + 75 dex: 0.87*(153-33) + 0.13*2.40*153 = 104 + 48 = 152 damage per hit
100 str + 100 dex: 0.84*(137-33) + 0.16*2.65*137 = 87 + 58 = 145 damage per hit
50 str + 150 dex: 0.77*(103-33) + 0.23*3*103 = 54 + 71 = 125 damage per hit

Ha ha, all the dex builds suck.

And even for the fantastic max def, min dex mob in catas at lvl 50, the values are still wayy in favor of a str build.

edit: Corrected (forgot to weight properly)

This post was edited by Dabljuh on Jun 5 2009 05:49pm
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Jun 5 2009 09:31pm
Just out of curiosity, I'll compare the starting values of some classes + 60 points (at lvl 50 or 51 rather but lets ignore that)

(Results are rounded. 2.4 + 2.4 = 4.8 checks out as 2+2=5)

Fighter
110 / 40 -> 93 + 22 = 115
50 / 90 -> 60 + 40 = 100

Barb
120 / 20 -> 111 + 11 = 122
60 / 80 -> 66 + 38 = 104

Rogue
90 / 60 -> 86 + 31 = 118
30 / 120 -> 46 + 50 = 96

Samurai
105/50 -> 97 + 27 = 124
45/110 -> 55 + 50 = 104

Lets see what happens if we give our Samurai here a 100% EE weapon
105/50 -> 224 + 55 = 279
45/110 -> 137 + 99 = 236

Just out of curiosity, what happens if we give our samurai a +50 str +50 dex plate instead of the EE weapon?
155/100 -> 117+76 = 193
95/160 -> 76+97 = 173

What happens if we give him a 100% EE sword on top of the plate?
155/100 -> 261 + 153 = 414
95/160 -> 177 + 194 = 370

What if we switch the plate for one with +100 str?
205/50 -> 345 + 81 = 426
145/110 -> 246 + 165 = 411

What if we switch the plate for one with +100 dex?
105/150 -> 190+194 = 383
45/210 -> 118+177 = 295

No matter what I do, STR is strictly superior to DEX in any realistic catacombs scenario when the goal is damage dealing.

Also note that the single biggest change is from the EE weapon.

This post was edited by Dabljuh on Jun 5 2009 09:56pm
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Jun 5 2009 11:05pm
uh ya, you don't need to make a whole shitload of things to see that according to that formula dex is better
if you make a graph and suppose a constant stat amount, like 250 suppose, to be split between str and dex
the graph is strictly increasing as str increases
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Jun 6 2009 11:43am
Could we use the following as a mental approximation to damage?

Damage = Weapon * EE * STR * (Dex/2)
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Jun 7 2009 07:46am
Probably more something like this:
Damage = Weapon * EE * (Str + 2Dex/3)

Actually a short hand for

Damage = Weapon * (EE/100+1) ((Str + 2Dex/3)/100 + 1)
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