I'm writing this because I'm tired of seeing the same thing said over and over

Don't mean to be singling you out, many people often say this. But guess what
It's not the best way to go

To show you what I mean, lets look at how damage would be calculated

(shown damage) = (base)*(.95 + str/100)*(1 + ee/100)

so then if we take crits into account, suppose you have an X% chance of critting and it would increase your damage by Y%
then your average damage is now

(average with crits) = (Shown Damage)(1 - X) + (Shown Damage)(X)(1+ Y) = (Shown Damage)(1 + XY)

but then

(average with crits) = (base)(1 + ee/100)(.95 + str)(1 + XY)

(base)(1 + ee/100) is of course constant for us, so the only thing we care about is what is multiplying it, which we will call the multiplier

(multiplier) = (.95 + str/100)(1 + XY)

so in an all str build, part two would be small, and vice-versa
if you know anything about math you'd know that in order for (multiplier) to be as large as possible you want both parts to be balanced, instead of concentrating all on one

but to get back on topic, nowhere in these damage calculations is there anything that would suggest that a sword would need more dex, or an axe would need more str
in fact! for people who don't have or use gear with high stat points, it may be in their best interest to use less than the suggested 120 dex because it might put them on the high dex/low str end of the scale

There are a few things that could affect this balance and the modifier's usefulness and that would be the monsters defense or your own defense vs crits
The first of these is of no consequence, you can figure it out for yourself, but I'm telling you ahead of time not to worry aobut it
The second is something you will have to decide for yourself what to do about, but keep in mind that I'm suggesting a balance between str and dex which will probably leave you with enough crit protection anyways

So in conclusion (also this is the tl;dr version)
Weapon type has nothing to do with how much str/dex you want
You want a balance of str and dex, I'm not sure of what ratio or anything like that, but I'm confident in saying not to pump one and forget about the other

now all of you, stop being ignorant

This post was edited by jbpellerin on Jan 25 2009 05:20pm

This will probably be more effective now with the ls nerf. But pre nerf with an axe the consistent 700-800 dmg hits were better for me soloing then the 500's with a 1.5 crit here and there. The problem I found is crits are completely random. Sometimes you get them sometimes you don't. I would prefer to leech 70-80 every hit then to steal 50 every hit then here and there steal 150. Though all of this now is useless with the ls nerf. New builds will have to be tested and such.


Math is one thing testing is another.

120 dex build with a 197ee level 55 axe with 10% ls got me 7-10 chains.

All str build 10%ls got me no less then a 25 chain. So while your math may say this is wrong. My testing(in game) says otherwise. The crits are just too infrequent to rely upon.

This is strictly from a solo pov. Catas might be different, Not sure. I no longer play them.

This post was edited by Massivelybored on Jan 25 2009 05:32pm

you have obviously never used a high ee axe versus a sword on all str then all dex then proper dex str combos. with the proper about of dex then as much str as possible with a 176 ee 55 axe u would average 400-500 damage, with all str bulid u will average 700-800 there is a difference between weapons and the amount of str or dex u should use.

I hate math.
Thanks!

no shit, obviously a typical hit (one that's not a crit) would be higher with your axe with an all str build

BUT!

if it is in fact true that you deal more damage on average when also including crits, with your all str build then your mix build when using an axe
the same would be true for a sword
THAT is that I pointed out in my thread

no u dont. when using and axe dex is completely worthless son. stop huddling over ur calculator and try using items first. no amount of dex makes it worth using on an axe versus and all str build for axe wielding.

same goes in this topic too:

can you read? seriously? read the post you're quoting

Until you are playing hardcore and die because you don't have enough dex to protect yourself from massive crits . I have personally found 100 dex to be my favorite build on hardcore although when I had better stats on my softcore items , I actually preferred 140 dex

I wish you people would actually test what you say before you say it.


Your talking averages, wich is over time. The question is how much time are we talking. How long does it take for the dmg to catch up and even out? 50 hits 100 hits?

This is assuming your criting every 4-5 hits. Wich even with 120 dex I can assure you your not.

I just tell people what I have found from personal expierence, all str builds with axe's are more effective.

ex.

Take 2 mobs for instance. Both have 2000 life. I'm hitting with an all str build for 700. Takes me 3 hits to kill right?

Now with a dex build takes 4 hits with no crit, 2 hits with a crit. I found with 120 dex I crit on average 1 ever 10 hits or so. So your talking every 3rd monster you crit.

So as far as kill monsters they = out to about the same. The only problem is killing in 3 hits saves you that one hit from the mob wich can be the differnce between death or killing a couple more mobs.

With a sword though, I can't deny that the more dex the better. No matter what you do you will hit low, therefore needing to make up for those with very high hits.




I personally have never really noticed a differnce with high dex builds as far as the dmg you take. Although I can't say I pay much attention to it. I usually worry more about how many monsters I can kill in a row, and how long it takes me to kill them. Seeing as if I die, it doesn't really matter. You guys on the other hand do have alot more to worry about as far as that goes.





Hes saying that you should still should go 120 dex with an axe. I just posted my finds from using both swords and axes and trying both builds, with what worked for me.

This post was edited by Massivelybored on Jan 25 2009 05:57pm