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Poll > Question: Which Wpn Would Kill 200k Monsters First
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Member
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Feb 27 2019 06:12am
Quote (BWConformity @ Feb 28 2019 12:56am)
I can't conclude the answer because I don't have enough information.

I also can't test this because I can't meet your assumptions in-game.

The above is my only reason for not "voting" but you are free to believe what you want :)


Rephrase:

Your other response was:
Axe kills monster in 3 actions = 3 seconds, Battle Axe kills monster in 2 actions = 3.6 seconds. Counter argument is simple:
Axe kills monster in 3 actions = 3 seconds, Battle Axe kills monster in 1 action = 1.8 seconds.
Over time and many encounters, this is a true statement in either case.
Whereas:
Axe kills monster in 4 actions = 4 seconds, Battle Axe kills monster in 2 actions = 3.6 seconds. BUT what about:
Axe kills monster in 4 actions = 4 seconds, Battle Axe kills monster in 1 action = 1.8 seconds?

Either way you look at it, the more encounters a Battle Axe will kill monsters faster based on TIME, this is not negotiable.
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Feb 27 2019 06:25am
Quote (izParagonzi @ Feb 27 2019 02:12am)
Rephrase:

Your other response was:
Axe kills monster in 3 actions = 3 seconds, Battle Axe kills monster in 2 actions = 3.6 seconds. Counter argument is simple:
Axe kills monster in 3 actions = 3 seconds, Battle Axe kills monster in 1 action = 1.8 seconds.
Over time and many encounters, this is a true statement in either case.
Whereas:
Axe kills monster in 4 actions = 4 seconds, Battle Axe kills monster in 2 actions = 3.6 seconds. BUT what about:
Axe kills monster in 4 actions = 4 seconds, Battle Axe kills monster in 1 action = 1.8 seconds?

Either way you look at it, the more encounters a Battle Axe will kill monsters faster based on TIME, this is not negotiable.


Ah okay cool; now it looks like I have enough information. It won't be possible to make such a scenario in-game against lvl 35 monsters... but if the bolded is even close to equally likely to occur as the italicized in your scenario, then it's obvious that the battleaxe will not only kill faster than the axe due to the buffed weapon speed with the rewrite, but would have actually killed faster before the rewrite, and even with an increased weapon speed penalty for heavy weapons beyond 2 seconds per swing.
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Feb 27 2019 06:43am
Quote (BWConformity @ Feb 28 2019 01:25am)
Ah okay cool; now it looks like I have enough information. It won't be possible to make such a scenario in-game against lvl 35 monsters... but if the bolded is even close to equally likely to occur as the italicized in your scenario, then it's obvious that the battleaxe will not only kill faster than the axe due to the buffed weapon speed with the rewrite, but would have actually killed faster before the rewrite, and even with an increased weapon speed penalty for heavy weapons beyond 2 seconds per swing.


My only response to this is that I have always thought as heavy weapons being superior in kill speed. With the introduction of abilities that charge up with Hits Taken, they became even more important, but, as pointed out by many others using Multiple Strike ability, you could use the ability at 50% charge dealing the equivalent damage as a single handed weapon charged at 100%, thus in reality 2x Battle Axe @ 50% (multistrike) vs 9 wave vs 1 Axe @ 100% (multistrike) deals the same average damage, BUT, battle axe can be used vs 2 waves of 9 compared to 1 wave of 9. There are many scenarios that counter this debate, the main one is charging up multistrike because of the 1 sec rule vs the OLD 2 sec rule, but, since the new re-write of 1.8 second rule, it makes heavy weapons superior ONLY @ level 35 and above!

I will continue that using a single handed weapon is way faster and superior from level 1 to at least level 15... and depending on gear, up to level 25 - 35.
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Feb 27 2019 06:58am
Quote (izParagonzi @ Feb 27 2019 02:43am)
My only response to this is that I have always thought as heavy weapons being superior in kill speed. With the introduction of abilities that charge up with Hits Taken, they became even more important, but, as pointed out by many others using Multiple Strike ability, you could use the ability at 50% charge dealing the equivalent damage as a single handed weapon charged at 100%, thus in reality 2x Battle Axe @ 50% (multistrike) vs 9 wave vs 1 Axe @ 100% (multistrike) deals the same average damage, BUT, battle axe can be used vs 2 waves of 9 compared to 1 wave of 9. There are many scenarios that counter this debate, the main one is charging up multistrike because of the 1 sec rule vs the OLD 2 sec rule, but, since the new re-write of 1.8 second rule, it makes heavy weapons superior ONLY @ level 35 and above!

I will continue that using a single handed weapon is way faster and superior from level 1 to at least level 15... and depending on gear, up to level 25 - 35.


You'll have no arguments with me that heavy weapons can be more effective than normal weapons. I've loved using heavy weapons... the rewrite reduction in attack speed was a nice bonus for me, but to negate armor at high levels and use with charges-with-hit-taken moves, I've often used lower ee heavy weapons over their much higher ee normal type counterparts... The counter arguments that you're referring to don't really fall into the context of the scenario you had laid out here... kill speed versus individual monsters not using abilities at low-mid levels (lvl 35 isn't really high enough for armor to make that big of a difference yet)... and ofc the 2-4 axe hits vs 1-2 battleaxe hits scenario is an idealization of how that plays out in-game... And I don't think you're going to see a 124 ee battleaxe kill a monster in 1 hit at lvl 35 that would take a 124 ee axe 4 hits to kill... but at level 100+, if your stats are low enough, sure, I don't see why it couldn't happen :)
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Feb 27 2019 07:30am
Quote (BWConformity @ Feb 28 2019 01:58am)
You'll have no arguments with me that heavy weapons can be more effective than normal weapons. I've loved using heavy weapons... the rewrite reduction in attack speed was a nice bonus for me, but to negate armor at high levels and use with charges-with-hit-taken moves, I've often used lower ee heavy weapons over their much higher ee normal type counterparts... The counter arguments that you're referring to don't really fall into the context of the scenario you had laid out here... kill speed versus individual monsters not using abilities at low-mid levels (lvl 35 isn't really high enough for armor to make that big of a difference yet)... and ofc the 2-4 axe hits vs 1-2 battleaxe hits scenario is an idealization of how that plays out in-game... And I don't think you're going to see a 124 ee battleaxe kill a monster in 1 hit at lvl 35 that would take a 124 ee axe 4 hits to kill... but at level 100+, if your stats are low enough, sure, I don't see why it couldn't happen :)


Again, rephrase:

In a group scenario, which I pointed out Multistrike while wielding a heavy weapon (Battle Axe), you would sit in the back, your abilities will suit the group dynamic as well as your gear selection... i.e. using Stat Armor and Main charm to increase damage output. (in certain cases after testing CS/AP/PS/QD you might forego stat).

Insight. After testing 20% and more Quick Draw, I found it to be MORE useful in group scenarios over 40 Stats addition to damage, ONLY because of abilities like Multistrike. Note: for solo'ing and building Melee / Heal build, Quick Draw of 20% or more can be counter productive since this mod over writes your next action which could be Salvation or healing.

During the testing phase of finding out about Critical Hit chance, I found that 98% of actions @ level 35-MQ using a 124% enhanced battle axe ranges from 2-4 actions, UNLESS a critical hit chance has occurred... you can find the results in the CS testing thread for yourself based on 100 actions vs Monster kills vs the the level I attained during the 100 actions. There was a difference using Longsword, but that is expected because of the low and high damage range comparison, if it wasn't for me using Armor Pierce & Power Shot mods, the range would have been a lot higher.

Remember, I am talking about solo only in 99% of my posts, I am also referring to using ONLY stat armor and 0% enhanced effect while I solo, so, if I join a group, I can still contribute to DPS... the only thing I change is my abilities to help increase the kill speed of the group... example: group climb using paladin... Multistrike + Healback while sitting in the back row... even though my intelligence was base 20, Healback helped even if I was only using a 107% ee level 45 WILD heal in ACC slot (no intelligence armor / main charm)

Different scenarios result in different outcomes... the ONE thing I loved about group runs with Datis, is that everyone KNEW where they were attacking, it wasn't random hit whatever and see what happens... this was great for me, because I could establish that my attacks hit a target while using a heavy weapon vs the other 4 people in group... this is missing in group runs, no co-ordination or attack pattern to utilise the best potential of a group.

Sorry for tl;dr concept here, but it is funny how the minuscule things are ignored that could actually enhance the group play scenario because 95% of the community think they know it all and just randomly click when they initiate a group from 1-MQ... shit, they could actually do 45-50 minute climbs if they organised it more effectively.
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