d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Diablo > Diablo 3 > D3 Discussion > The High End Wizard Discussion Topic
Prev16768697071326Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 94
Joined: Jun 22 2012
Gold: 0.00
Sep 29 2012 03:50am
So do elemental skill bonuses work with the hellfire ring? I've been wondering how much of an effect the fragment of destiny/magefist would have. Still doubt it would do enough to make it worth it, though.

Also, I think I'm gonna wait until the patch drops to get a nice ll weap. There'll probably be a lot more to choose from.

This post was edited by LostKeys on Sep 29 2012 03:52am
Member
Posts: 10,544
Joined: Feb 4 2009
Gold: 20.78
Sep 29 2012 04:41am
I think it's really important for the wiz playing community to give a detailed constructive feedback on 1.0.5. Most of the feedback is of the "omg barb still op", "wtf wiz nerfed and unplayable", if we try to make solid comparisons and analysis maybe they'll listen.
They probably would ignore us anyway but there's a small chance at least 1 or 2 points are heard.
Gomunkulus already started a bit, I think if we gather all our ideas together and post it on PTR report and get some support we have a chance to make some changes.

I've got a few on top of my head, please do give some feedback.

Sustainability of Secondary Form
For end game content it is important to be able to stay in enhanced temporary form for as long as possible. For us this would obviously be Archon form, this could be compared to a barb's Berserker form (WOTB).

Other classes have a similar need to "chain" or maintain a powerful secondary temporary form. For example a monk chaining serenity (with ascension) and seven sided strike, or a Dh maintaining gloom form either with .0.3 nat set and/or nightstalker.
All of these forms work slightly differently but is a form that greatly improves our character, monk will be out of serenity/sevensided regardless how well they time it. However although they are out of the 2 forms for longer than say a wiz/dh's archon/gloom but archon/gloom are not invincible, serenity/seven sided are basically invincible.

I think the most similar secondary form to archon is WOTB, and we need to analyse it in detail to show archon is inferior in every way. Hence unbalanced and need changes to address our issues.

WOTB:
starting length - 15s, cool down - 120 seconds.
Let's take thrive on chaos rune for our analysis.

+10% crit chance
+25% ias
+20% dodge
+20% MS

Maintenance - 25 fury per second

Archon:
starting length - 15s, cool down - 120 seconds.

+40% armor
+40% res

We need to compare 4 things:
1) Defensive buff, compare the EHP improvement of +40% armor/res against +20% dodge
2) damage buff, compare the 300% weapon damage skills of archon against +10% crit + 25% ias.
3) Life sustainability - take into account of the dps buff above for LL increase and also ias increase for barb's loh.
4) Upkeep of secondary form.

Defensive buff
For a good barb the normal amount of dodge is about 10-15%
check out diablo progress top 20 heroscore barbs to get a rough idea.
The +20% dodge gives the barb a 20% dodge and not +20% of what your current dodge % is, the dodge from dex is added on after with diminishing returns.
E.g. My barb with 13.5% dodge, in WOTB i'll have 30.8% dodge.

New EHP = (Old EHP /1.135)*1.30.8 =1.145. A 14.5% increase in EHP.

For a similar cost wiz, it'll normally have 700 all res, 6k armor (with energy armor but not prismatic). The improvement in archon mode is about 5%-6% in both armor damage reduction and resistance damage reduction (from about 65% to 70%/71% armor dmg red, from about 70% to 76% res dmg red).


I gtg... will finish up later.
TL:DR version (summary)

1) End game WOTB/Archon's effectiveness is similar, but barb can maintain WOTB in MP10 quite easily but wiz will really struggle to maintain archon in MP10.

Other things I wanted to get through are
2) Loh/LL life sustainability. monks/barbs can dual wield for more loh/LL. Loh stacking can be done in ring/amulet slots, and leg items in helm/leg slots etc, life steal can't. Also barbs have passive + mighty belt for even more LL.
melee wiz and any caster in general can't actually stay in casting range forever, some mobs will always be too fast and be in melee range. We have to have a good life source. Loh is not practical and LL can't be stacked enough. Rings need 1% LL, amulets need 2% LL, source potentially need 3% LL as well.
we need more life gain.

3) End game movement - vault, tempest tail wind, wotb+run like the wind etc vs wiz. (Monk/dh have ms passive as well). Tele/Illusionist isn't even close to the effectiveness of the mentioned methods of increasing MS, you risk hits/death to proc it or you have too much defensive for really end game gear and it never procs (this second problem maybe won't be the case in MP10).

4) Bossing/ubering - Most of the other secondary forms don't need mass mobs to maintain. In a single (or 2 target in ubers) situation wiz will be at a huge disadvantage in high MP games. Barbs can still maintain WOTB for long periods with mighty weapon against ubers, archon wiz gets 15seconds and not a single second more.
out of archon we are going to struggle for reasons of defensive nerfs and low loh/LL effectiveness.

anywya i really got to go, will try to fill more theorycrafting in later.
Moderator
Posts: 18,453
Joined: Feb 10 2010
Gold: 9,679.69
Trader: Trusted
Sep 29 2012 05:11am
good summary mate.. we realy need to bring this stuff to blizzard.

you never know.. maybe they change something
Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Sep 12 2012
Gold: 0.00
Sep 29 2012 06:42am
im comparing 1h to skorn back and fourth right now, maybe i need to see it from someone who can demonstrate 1h. i couldnt kill az with a 1h wand at 160k dps, 2.6 lifesteal. i switched to skorn and facetanked him in under 10 seconds
Member
Posts: 3,533
Joined: Jun 14 2012
Gold: 718.77
Sep 29 2012 07:07am
Quote (omegaash @ Sep 29 2012 08:42am)
im comparing 1h to skorn back and fourth right now, maybe i need to see it from someone who can demonstrate 1h. i couldnt kill az with a 1h wand at 160k dps, 2.6 lifesteal. i switched to skorn and facetanked him in under 10 seconds


i kill him in 6 seconds with 170k dps
1h + source

there is nothing special about killing azmo. he stands still.

you're probably doing something wrong. there's literally nothing to demonstrate.

This post was edited by GetFrozty on Sep 29 2012 07:08am
Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Sep 12 2012
Gold: 0.00
Sep 29 2012 07:27am
oh i forgot to mention the fireballs, hp jumps back up after an explosion normally for me, i had to dodge around a bit using 1h so i dunno
Member
Posts: 45,291
Joined: Dec 25 2006
Gold: 2,819.99
Sep 29 2012 07:31am
Is there any major updates I should do before the patch comes?
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/mxO-2901/hero/15068658
Member
Posts: 156
Joined: Jun 2 2012
Gold: 0.00
Sep 29 2012 11:05am
Just a lil question: Will coldblooded increase mobs that are chilled by a cold-dmg weapon from your follower?

Anyone ever test it? Cause if it does work it´s probably the easiest way to gain 20% damage....
Moderator
Posts: 18,453
Joined: Feb 10 2010
Gold: 9,679.69
Trader: Trusted
Sep 29 2012 11:49am
Quote (Cocala @ Sep 29 2012 06:05pm)
Just a lil question: Will coldblooded increase mobs that are chilled by a cold-dmg weapon from your follower?

Anyone ever test it? Cause if it does work it´s probably the easiest way to gain 20% damage....


im pretty sure it work
Member
Posts: 40,339
Joined: Jan 21 2006
Gold: 88.00
Sep 29 2012 12:28pm
Quote (Cocala @ Sep 29 2012 01:05pm)
Just a lil question: Will coldblooded increase mobs that are chilled by a cold-dmg weapon from your follower?

Anyone ever test it? Cause if it does work it´s probably the easiest way to gain 20% damage....


it works

people are going with windforce + cold dmg sojs now apparently the best follower build after they nerf enchantress's

This post was edited by Yazuki on Sep 29 2012 12:28pm
Go Back To D3 Discussion Topic List
Prev16768697071326Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll