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Nov 6 2012 06:37pm
Quote (Falt @ Nov 6 2012 01:26pm)
No? this is 1 of the things we talked about on the last page.
if you have 100k sheet dps it does NOT mather if you have 2 fast 1-handers or a slow 2-hander you will still deal the same damage if you only autoattack with sweeping wind active (not taking any other skill in consideration)

* http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6202181225?page=1


Not taking any other skill in consideration is absolutely pointless, but congrats on your math skills. I said the cyclone build. That doesn't mean one skill, it means the build. In order to spam mantras with a 2h as much as a DW build, you need spirit regen gear or a different skill setup. Thus, all other things are no longer equal. Read my statement a bit more carefully. With a higher aps in a DW build, you have much faster spirit regen, LoH benefits, etc etc etc. It's better.
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Nov 6 2012 06:40pm
Quote (Falt @ Nov 6 2012 04:21pm)
yes, will most likely do some tries tomorrow. Get 2 decent weps for a couple of M and use a dps calculator and get a matching skorn/2h.

the reason im writing so much about this is not that i think skorn is better in any way.
The reason is that im about to uppgrade my weapon and i have noticed that if you want the same dps with dual-wield you will have to pay  like 2-3x times the price for EACH 1-hander compared to a decent skorn.
I would realy love if dw gives some extra "hidden" dps due to higher aps and therefore i can throw away my skorn and start dualwield again. But if i can get 20k more  dps for the same price if choose skorn over the 1-handers and the 1-handers dont have any hidden dps advantages it feels hard to justifi it.


I definitely agree that 2h are more affordable in general...that's because the mechanics aren't as effective as a DW build. So it's much more possible to snag a decent 2h for a cheap price than to do the same for a DW setup. This much we agree on. However, I stand by what I said - DW is still better and has more capacity to BE better.

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Of course, if you have a great 2h and terrble 1hs, then yes, 2h will be better, but that's not because of the way the skills work, it's because of the weapon discrepancy.
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Nov 6 2012 06:48pm
It took me like a full month of researching on AH to find and snipe both of my weapons. LOL

Never again. I'm happy with my weapons.

This post was edited by jinshin85 on Nov 6 2012 06:48pm
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Nov 6 2012 07:19pm
Quote (jinshin85 @ Nov 6 2012 04:48pm)
It took me like a full month of researching on AH to find and snipe both of my weapons. LOL

Never again. I'm happy with my weapons.


Lol

I have to be happy with them cuz I'm poor xD
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Nov 6 2012 11:23pm
Interesting Sweeping Winds:Cyclone discussion :)

I think there are two more factors to consider though:

1) The ramp up to the first cyclone - Let's assume sheet DPS is equal. Most monks with a 120K dps DW setup attack at about 2.5 attacks/second. A similar setup on a 2H will be around 1.4, let's round to 1.5 for easier calculations. Also, monks at this DPS hover around 50% crit chance, so it should take about 7 attacks to get that first cyclone out (crit (stack 1), normal, crit (stack 2), normal, crit (stack 3), normal, crit(cyclone)). At 1.5 attacks per second, it will take a 2h user ~4.6 seconds to spit the first cyclone. At 2.5 attacks per second, this is done in 2.8 seconds. The difference (4.6-2.8) of 1.8 seconds means that an additional 4.5 attacks (1.8*2.5) is generated, which @50% crit means an additional 2 cyclones. The accepted value at the moment is that cyclones hit 6 times @ 20% weapon damage. Which means that by the time a 2H user generates a cyclone, a DW user has generated 2 more which add up for an additional 240% of weapon damage. This may not seem much, but that number adds up with every pack.

2) The overkill factor - Say you have a monster with 50 health left. For easy numbers, let's say a DW build has 2 cyclones dealing 50 damage and a 2H build has 1 cyclone dealing 100 damage. In the DW scenario, the cyclone will kill the monster and the other cyclone will zap a different monster for 50. In the 2H scenario, that monster will be "overkilled" for 100.

These 2 factors can of course be mitigated. The ramp up can be reduced with Inna's set. And both can be reduced by playing at a high MP level where the damage difference is an insignificant difference to a monster's overall health. However, at low MP levels these factors accumulate over the whole run and even with Inna's running Alkaizer, your stack will drop whenever your teleport out.
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Nov 7 2012 12:40am
Also, monks running thunderclap have a large part of their mobility based on attack speed. More is better.
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Nov 7 2012 01:00am
how valuable is the WMK lightning bonus?



i found that WMK tonight, don't currently have any other source of life steal.. but just wondering if the bonus makes up for the char sheet loss
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Nov 7 2012 01:25am
Quote (jova1316 @ Nov 7 2012 04:00pm)
how valuable is the WMK lightning bonus?

http://i48.tinypic.com/nq8hhz.jpg

i found that WMK tonight, don't currently have any other source of life steal.. but just wondering if the bonus makes up for the char sheet loss


That bonus is so ridiculously good with FoT and Cyclones. it's essentially 15-25% bonus to your sheet dps o_O... and if cyclones adds 120% dps as they say, it'll be 160% after 25%!
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Nov 7 2012 01:29am
Quote (MrDictatoHead @ Nov 6 2012 09:25pm)
That bonus is so ridiculously good with FoT and Cyclones.  it's essentially 15-25% bonus to your sheet dps o_O... and if cyclones adds 120% dps as they say, it'll be 160% after 25%!


but its kinda not good unless you have a socket + LS one (or Crit+ socket one...though id take the dps loss and go with the LS+ socket one cause you wanna stack as much LS as you can on a monk. they can only have 6% max)
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Nov 7 2012 01:32am
Quote (jova1316 @ 7 Nov 2012 15:00)
how valuable is the WMK lightning bonus?

http://i48.tinypic.com/nq8hhz.jpg

i found that WMK tonight, don't currently have any other source of life steal.. but just wondering if the bonus makes up for the char sheet loss


if you care too much about your "sheet" dps, go for Terrible Clash(like the name suggests).

Otherwise, go for wkl as it will do more "hidden" dmg.

furthermore, that wkl is even better than that shitty "dps" rare fist you have as it offers more survivability through lifesteal and more dex.

if you wanna see how much "sheet" dps you actually do with wkl, use deadlyreach/foresight and combinationstrike and strike a target till it buffs. this will give you 24% dmg increase which is the same as the 24% more lightning dmg.

This post was edited by huntersghost on Nov 7 2012 01:37am
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