d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Diablo > Diablo 3 > D3 Discussion > The High End Wizard Discussion Topic
Prev134567326Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 3,533
Joined: Jun 14 2012
Gold: 718.77
Sep 3 2012 10:25pm
Quote (RedV @ Sep 3 2012 11:11pm)
Not sure what there is to lol about, as I said they are my opinions with reasons behind why I chose them.
In any case they are the best gear in each slot for this build not for all wiz.

I will reply to some of your points though.
Firstly I do often look at the top wizards, not just top 10 but also up to top 50, for dps ranking and overall hero ranking.
In the top 10, 4 people use Tal Rasha's. That's not mostly using Tal Rasha's. I've made 2 points before but for you and other readers I'll make it again.
1) The game is still very new, 3 months into a game is hard for any person to get best gear in each slot already. Also many contenders for best gear are new, about 2 weeks old. Can't really expected GFG rolls already.
2) I've made this point about Triumvirate and Chantodo's. At MAX possible rolls they are about the same, and triumvirate will be slightly better if all other gear are close to perfect as well.
However Triumvirate is easier to be better than chantodo's. Triumvirate's main source of competitive advantage against all other sources (chantodo, oculus, tal etc) is that it's got +18% elemental damage. This damage's min roll is 15%. So to get a Max roll is very easy.
Chantodo's on the other hand the high raw damage roll is very important, and to get a MAX raw damage it's very hard.

With that being said it's very easy to see that Tal Rasha's is like triumvirate and is easier to roll near it's max damage potential.
it's base crit is 5-6%, one out of it's 2 int spawns is 170-200, socket is a base roll.
All it needs for a 200+ int is 1 stacked int roll.
On the other hand Mempo may not even spawn with int at all, if it does roll it could be very very low. Mempo also doesn't roll base crit. So for a Mempo to be better it must roll int and must roll crit, and they must both roll high. Tal Rasha's is much more likely to have a "high" roll.



ASI being an overkill unless you have APOC is totally irrelevent, this build is in archon form the vast majority of the time. ASI raises the on screen damage which is normalised into ticking a higher damage even though archon beam itself can't "attack" any faster.

Last but not least, maybe blizz will fix the fact that one of the Mempo's rolls doesn't exist at all. The 170-200 primary roll for either dex/int/str doesn't exist at the moment. Even if it does it's still a 1 in 3, tal rasha's got 170-200 int only.



If you just look at rank 2 dps in the world there, his gloves are not trifecta, no ias, and have dex, light res. None of his 2 rings or amulet have raw damage either. Instead they have random dex, phy res etc.
Same with rank 1 dps, it's much better but still have random rolls on his main dps stats gear. Zuni Pox is amazing for now but instead of rolling raw damage it has light res, other ring has random str.

All of them have varied gear, whatever they happened to being able to buy. Give it myabe 1-2 years then the top guys will start to have more similar gear.



Jsp doesn't allow editing post after a short time (I think 30mins).
It clearly says all along that #1 is rare with 6 listed rolls. We're saying the same thing, not sure what your point is. Maybe you thought because depth came first on the list it was the BiS, the BiS normally appear towards the end on my lists.

Inna's is a good point. I did forget to put inna's pants in there for DPS/MS. Inna's have 1% crit, 9%IAS, 12%MS.
MS is not really needed since this build would have used zuni boots + lacuni which both give 12% MS, So we are already 24/25 on MS cap.
Inna's got only 1 random roll. so basically it's 1% crit + 9% IAS + 100 int (100 max since not stacked) vs 200 int, 300, vita, 80res.
dex and ms that are inna's base rolls are basically pointless.


It would be alot more helpful to a theorycrafting topic to state your reasons. such as what you did with pants.
In any case I disagree with using a wand being the best for this build.
6 prop wand will always waste a roll on Max Arcane Power.

I looked up wand with base crit, socket, life steal, int. The highest dps wand on all of EU is less than 850 dps...
That's because to get high dps you MUST have at least 2 damage rolls, as in + dmg and + % dmg. (can have ias as well but that cut into other rolls).
With 2 rolls gone, we still need 4 - base crit, socket, life steal, int.
That Max AP screws it all up.

i searching without in, just life steal, socket, base crit. Apart from 1 over 1k dps wand, the second highest wand in EU is 870 dps.
wands are not good if you want a good utility weapon. If you go for no life steal and straight +dmg, +%dmg, ias, base crit, socket, int sure it can still be good. Good but not really better than swords.


wasn't expecting such an in-depth response.

i wasn't loling @ you; i was referring to the other posts.

i should've read the wot more carefully before even responding -- i thought you were referring to general wizard builds. i use an archon build as well, and i find that with no apoc or max ap, the downtimes are too noticeable (10 seconds+). with even 10 apoc, my downtimes are significantly reduced (~3 seconds vs a pack of 3+ mobs)

good point about the roll on the wand being wasted on resource.

with regard to innas/lacunis/boots, obviously more than 24 would be useless. hence my note about getting ice climbers for the ehp it provides, which would offset the lack of ehp on innas. it would be a tossup between the 8%, and the modifiers from lacunis & innas. i personally prefer boots with movespeed, though, since, as we both said, 6+ can have monster rolls
Member
Posts: 2,832
Joined: Apr 20 2011
Gold: 15.00
Warn: 10%
Sep 3 2012 11:10pm
Dunno, cm wizzard is the best build imo. White mobs die very fast, elites melt fast with the proper gear too. Got 53k dps 1k @ with a shield and feeling great in a 4 man game.
Member
Posts: 2,598
Joined: Aug 18 2008
Gold: 3,115.00
Sep 3 2012 11:33pm
Innas pants kinda suck if your weapon has 1k+ dps - 150+int+2sockets start to outweigh the ias and crit they offer. Possible defensive mods are much better too.

At least thats what my observation is :).

I have a question tho - do + to elemental damage as in triumvirate show on char sheet dps? Im still using a source I found around 2 months ago and been lusting after a decent new one for quite a while now... then again Im missing a few hundred mills for a good chantado/triumvirate i guess :s
Member
Posts: 8,752
Joined: Apr 15 2007
Gold: 13.93
Warn: 10%
Sep 4 2012 01:30am
Is it important not to use weapon with elemental dmg if we will use triumvirate ?
Member
Posts: 1,234
Joined: Sep 4 2012
Gold: 739.51
Sep 4 2012 04:08am
Quote (RedV @ Aug 31 2012 11:38pm)

Zunimassa's Trail (new set) - bnet info is wrong again, can't roll 300 int, it can't roll over 200 int actually
Let's compare the old and new Zuni boots: (this will be a bit lengthy)
1) +8% Poison Damage. This unique ability is 2% higher than Zunimassa's Journey.
Because we already have + elemental damage on other items this doesn't make a 2% difference to total DPS. For more info see other threads.


Hi RedV,

thanks for excelt topic.

Can you please explained this quote about best gear in slot further? What did you mean with '2% difference to todal DPS'?
I am curious about gearing for every +% elemental dmg item I can get, but this note confuses me :).
Or can you please post link to mentioned threads about this topic..
thanks for a reply.
Member
Posts: 40,339
Joined: Jan 21 2006
Gold: 88.00
Sep 4 2012 04:26am
Quote (Potkan84 @ Sep 4 2012 06:08am)
Hi RedV,

thanks for excelt topic.

Can you please explained this quote about best gear in slot further? What did you mean with '2% difference to todal DPS'?
I am curious about gearing for every +% elemental dmg item I can get, but this note confuses me :).
Or can you please post link to mentioned threads about this topic..
thanks for a reply.


http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6413025317#13
Member
Posts: 1,234
Joined: Sep 4 2012
Gold: 739.51
Sep 4 2012 05:39am
Yazuki blue post you linked is no an anwser to question I had.

"Because we already have + elemental damage on other items this doesn't make a 2% difference to total DPS. For more info see other threads."

It is said, if I am wearing other +elemental damage, example tal rasha amu +6% cold dmg.. and than I use Zunimassa boots +8%poison damage, what I get in total? 14%?

This post was edited by Potkan84 on Sep 4 2012 05:40am
Member
Posts: 40,339
Joined: Jan 21 2006
Gold: 88.00
Sep 4 2012 06:05am
Quote (Potkan84 @ Sep 4 2012 07:39am)
Yazuki blue post you linked is no an anwser to question I had.

"Because we already have + elemental damage on other items this doesn't make a 2% difference to total DPS. For more info see other threads."

It is said, if I am wearing other +elemental damage, example tal rasha amu +6% cold dmg.. and than I use Zunimassa boots +8%poison damage, what I get in total? 14%?


Physical damage. Read the other posts below the blue's they got the point.

This post was edited by Yazuki on Sep 4 2012 06:05am
Member
Posts: 10,544
Joined: Feb 4 2009
Gold: 20.78
Sep 4 2012 08:46am
Quote (Neuuubeh @ 4 Sep 2012 06:33)
Innas pants kinda suck if your weapon has 1k+ dps - 150+int+2sockets start to outweigh the ias and crit they offer. Possible defensive mods are much better too.

At least thats what my observation is :).

I have a question tho - do + to elemental damage as in triumvirate show on char sheet dps? Im still using a source I found around 2 months ago and been lusting after a decent new one for quite a while now... then again Im missing a few hundred mills for a good chantado/triumvirate i guess :s


I totally agree, since we'll have 24% ms already the MS on inna is a wasted stats, the 1% crit is a wasted stat slot, it will roll base dex another wasted stat.
Base socket which we need, ias is nice + 1 more random roll for int.
No way is IAS + int = near 200 int, 300 vita, all res.
Going for pure glass cannon and showing a good on screen dps for epeen it's useful, otherwise it's pointless more or less.

+elemental damage in triumvirate will show on char sheet dps.
Member
Posts: 10,544
Joined: Feb 4 2009
Gold: 20.78
Sep 4 2012 09:03am
I got a few questions in pm about triumvirate, zunimassa boots and in general how does elemental damage work.

I will use a random weapon that a low budget wizard might use. it's got int, base crit, crit dmg, good APS to scale well with source damage etc. Cost less than 1 mil. I think was like 300k which is a good bargain, high attack speed (scales well with source), int, base crit, socket. great for new wiz



868 DPS, 1.4 APS, +270-623 Arcane Damage.
We'll work out how much the weapon's base physical damage is.
(270+623)/2 = 446.5 average damage.
446.5 *1.4 = 625.1 dps from the arcane damage.
Which means 868 -625.1 = 242.9 dps from physical damage. (actually the pre id weap will show this anyway)
242.9/1.4 = 173.5 the raw damage of the weapon.

Let's say we have a triumvirate with 3 +6% elemental damage for a total of 18%. It will be applied to the weapon like this:

Weapon dps = ( 173.5 *1.18 + 446.5 )* APS [this weapon doesn't have + % dmg but if it did we would multiply it along with APS]
Weapon dps = (204.73+446.5)*1.4 = 911.7

The difference between old dps and new dps is 911.7/868 = 1.05, 5% difference.
If possible get a + min + max weapon, those are ALL physical and you'll get all of your +18% damage.

@potkan84
Another side note If you have a weapon with all physical damage, called it X damage. if we have tal rasha's amulet (since this is best in slot) we get another 6% elemental damage.
Weapon dps = X*1.24

If you use zunimassa boots for 8% more the new dps is X*1.32, but that's not 8% more total dps.
1.32/1.24 = 1.0645. So about 6.5% IF your weapon damage is all physical. Some listed contenders for BiS like chantodo's wand it will always spawn elemental damage (if they fix the weapon and actually get 2 prop rolls for crit base and socket). For that alone even if chantodo's gets fixed it should be used with chantodo's source not triumvirate.

rare+ triumvirate both with max rolls > chantodo's wand+ source. But chantodo's wand + source > a lot of randoms.

/e when I said 2%, i just mean on average people will probably not have just a pure physical damage weapon. if +18% from triumvirate is only about 5% as seen before, zunimassa's only makes 2% more difference.
if you buy a physical damage only weapon then you can make use of zuni boots more.

This post was edited by RedV on Sep 4 2012 09:16am
Go Back To D3 Discussion Topic List
Prev134567326Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll