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d2jsp Forums > Diablo > Diablo 3 > D3 Discussion > Diminishing Returns: Debunking The Myth > Resistances And Armor Do Not Diminish
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#31
Aug 4 2012 08:40am
Quote (Kasiir @ Jul 30 2012 09:37am)
I see what you mean, but I think it is better to say that:
In fact they DO suffer from diminishing returns but EHP mechanics makes up for that.

What this means is that:
1. Keeping armor and res in relation has some importance. It is not true that a fixed amount of armor (or res) always adds that same amount of EHP, because the gain of EHP depends on your res (armor).
2. Dodge from dex with its diminishing returns benefits from the exact same thing and, while I didn't do the math, I assume blizzard will have made it scale in a similar fashion
3. Block chance/amount scales super-linear. There is a linear increase in reduction and by the same logic there is a rising gain in EHP.
4. If stuff like damge reduction vs meele/range/elites works additively, it scales super linear


Wrong. This is simple math. +1 AR and +1 armor always increases your EHP by the same amount, regardless of how much you have.

EHP might not be in the character sheet like DPS is, but it still exists, as DPS still would if it wasn't displayed.

Sticky to spread common sense please.

This post was edited by thingstuff on Aug 4 2012 08:40am
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#32
Aug 4 2012 09:19am
Not sure if this has anything to do with the topic, but I really suck at theory-things and maths etc. I'm saying I really didn't get the idea here, but after looking at this video, it somehow is all clear now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4W5bmLQhbY
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#33
Aug 5 2012 03:43am
Quote (thingstuff @ 4 Aug 2012 16:40)
Wrong. This is simple math. +1 AR and +1 armor always increases your EHP by the same amount, regardless of how much you have.

EHP might not be in the character sheet like DPS is, but it still exists, as DPS still would if it wasn't displayed.

Sticky to spread common sense please.


Your common sense fails terribly.. Armor and Allres (you forgot the 10:1 ratio as well) increase EHP by the same amount ONLY if they are balanced. 6000 armor 600 allres for example - each point allres/10 points armor would increase your EHP (if you care about that) by 0.11%.
An opposite example: 5000 armor 1000allres - each 10 points armor would increase by +0.12%, whilst each allrespoint would increase your EHP only by around 0.08%.


Bravo on that common sense that you are trying to spread. Think about the actual Damage Mitigation calculations before posting such "common sense" again please. Simple math seems to have gotten ya :)

This post was edited by Neuuubeh on Aug 5 2012 03:43am
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#34
Aug 5 2012 08:51am
Wow, this is a awesome thread. Thanks Blodulf!
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#35
Aug 5 2012 11:03am
dont people try and get as much AR on every piece of gear as possible? would this only be relevant to those min maxers who try and float around 700-800 AR so they can maximize non-AR stats on their gear?
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#36
Aug 14 2012 05:09pm
Quote (Axiomatius @ Aug 5 2012 05:03pm)
dont people try and get as much AR on every piece of gear as possible? would this only be relevant to those min maxers who try and float around 700-800 AR so they can maximize non-AR stats on their gear?


I'd say it's relevant to everyone who didn't know how it works. How you proceed to use knowledge of game mechanics is up to you.
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#37
Sep 3 2012 07:50pm
This thread just saved me from purposely lowering my AR.
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#38
Sep 3 2012 10:48pm
sure it has diminishing returns.

if you have 9k armor and 1000 ar, 10 more ar is going to cost a whole shit load more then if you had 1k armor and 100 ar.

as well i was wondering how armor+ar is factored together to get the total damage reduced %?

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Sep 3 2012 10:51pm
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#39
Sep 3 2012 11:03pm
heres a quick example that should illustrate what's going on to even the most maths loathing people!

10000 HP + 300 allres (50%) = 20000 EHP
10000 HP + 600 allres (67%) = 30000 EHP
10000 HP + 900 allres (75%) = 40000 EHP


10000 HP + 3000 armor (50%) = 20 000 EHP
10000 HP + 6000 armor (67%) = 30 000 EHP
10000 HP + 9000 armor (75%) = 40 000 EHP


10000 HP + 300 allres (50%)+ 3000 armor (50%) =40 000 EHP
10000 HP + 600 allres (67%)+ 6000 armor (67%) = 90 000 EHP
10000 HP + 900 allres (75%)+ 9000 armor (75%) = 160 000 EHP






Quote (Ylem122 @ 4 Sep 2012 06:48)

i was wondering how armor+ar is factored together to get the total damage reduced %?


Let X be the % reduction from armor and Y the reduction from allresi

1 -((1-X)*(1-Y)) = Total

50% armor 50% allres:

1-((1-0.5)*(1-0.5)) = 0.75 = 75%
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#40
Sep 3 2012 11:18pm
Quote (Sarastrasza @ Sep 4 2012 01:03am)
10000 HP + 300 allres (50%)+ 3000 armor (50%) =40 000 EHP
10000 HP + 600 allres (67%)+ 6000 armor (67%) = 90 000 EHP
10000 HP + 900 allres (75%)+ 9000 armor (75%) = 160 000 EHP


what about

10000 HP + 300 allres (50%)+ 9000 armor (75%) = ?

it should be the same as:

10000 HP + 600 allres (67%)+ 6000 armor (67%) = 90 000 EHP

right?

seems to be 87.5% and 89.11% if im doing the math correctly.

so in relation to price and AR/Armor, they do have diminshing returns though in relation to themselfs and Vita they do not.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Sep 3 2012 11:24pm
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