helo

wizard good as first starter char? or cannot sustain self ? would love some infos

ty

Yea, time warp is definitely the better, higher-dmg group-friendly skill. Even if you run with ep monks and hota barbs, use time warp. Most high-level players already know this skill is the better one and if they don't, well just ignore them if they cry about how stretch time increases their sheet dps - they should stop complaining once they see how much faster the packs die. If not, well...not much you can do, some people have viewpoints that can't be changed even with facts

Imho the only good time a cmwiz should run stretch time is when there's another cmwiz in the group with time warp already so that both buffs can be present, or I guess if a cmwiz is missing ias on a piece of equip and needs it to hit a breakpoint...although this is suboptimal and should only be used as a temporary crutch.

@eggson - wizzes aren't the cheapest to gear and are a bit weak until you get to a certain level so just keep that in mind I guess.

This post was edited by ElijahBailey on Apr 8 2013 03:49pm

no, pretty expensive compared to barb

time warp > stretch time imo (although i always get asked to use the blue one)

i dont like meteor, neither in d2 (hate those delays / aiming trouble ^^)

You are correct, meteor makes your wizard harder to use, your risk of death increases and you have to micro more (like with mp10 Ghom I can't go full damage because I have to place more winds for more sustain). But I actually I see it as a positive thing: with bubble I can never die with my EHP, it's just boring, I hold 1-2 (skin-blast) and rmb (nova) and click lmb (winds) and occasional bubble (3). It just makes me yawn so hard I almost swallow my 24 inch (sic!) asus monitor. With meteors it is a lot of fun mashing one group with blast skin and killing ranged enemies (shamans/hands/archers) with meteors, or bringing all hit on an elite group. And let's not forget - conflagration (as stupid as the word itself sounds) adds 10% damage buff to all party members.

About testing, Time Stretch > Time Warp for my wizard - I am reaching next breakpoint with it and though damage difference is insignificant (it is like 30 seconds mp6 Azmo versus 32 with Time Warp), 3,003 obviously feels much better and life leech is just much greater (so Visaria, you are wrong :)). Now I still try to reach better than 30 seconds result with meteor spec, maybe it's the beer in me or maybe I forgot how to click buttons in this game but right now meteor =/= Time Stretch versus mp6 Azmodan.

This post was edited by Mad1Lee on Apr 8 2013 04:48pm

so okay, after I finally pulled myself together and start clicking buttons applying a little bit of skill I came up with following results:

edit: tested with my wizard (http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/mad1lee-2243/Serpen/195500 142k dps actually, paragon doesn't update).

Monster Power 6 Azmodan, ~36 million hit points
Time Warp - 39-40 seconds (with Evocation) ~ 923k effective damage per second
Slow Time (reaching 3,003 aps with it)- 38-39 seconds (with Evocation) ~ 947k effective damage per second
Meteor Shower - 33-36 seconds (with Conflagration) ~ 1090k effective damage per second (max versus single fat Azmodan)

Pros of Meteor spec: most effective dps, versatility versus ranged targets, insane damage output versus large packs of mobs, 10% party damage bonus, a lot of fun to play
Cons of Meteor spec: very gear dependent (requires high cc and very high ehp), harder to use versus single bosses that can kill you (Azmodan, Ubers, etc.), less crowd control

Pros of Slow Time (reaching 3,003 aps with it): decent damage output + absolute crowd control, highest survivability (slowed enemies and projectiles, highest life return with 3,003 aps), 10% ias party bonus
Cons: Almost none, except in some rare situations projectiles stacking in bubble can kill you if you got mediocre ehp (like electrified or Magda's butterflies). Also bit boring to play

Time Warp takes 3rd place in my list. It's probably a greatest party buff, but I would prefer Time Stretch and 3,003 aps to it every time.

This post was edited by Mad1Lee on Apr 8 2013 05:33pm

where I say just "slow time" I obviously mean Time Stretch rune.

Just to provide a counterpoint to the above:

MP10 Ghom: 138.xx million hp
Exact same set of gear, 285k sheet, 2.74aps, using 30apoc stormcrow setup to cut out any discussion of insufficient ap:
Time Warp: 54s (8.96x)
Time stretch: 58s (8.34x)
Meteor Shower: 60s (8.07x) used 2 potions, almost died twice.

Pro's of time warp: 20% increased dmg taken by enemies. Cons: It's not teleport.
Pro's of time stretch: 10% ias, increase in sheet damage, hooray! Cons: It doesn't hit a bp at 2.74 and 10% ias < 20% dmg. Honestly I would not use this...it should only be used as a temporary crutch.
Pro's of meteor shower: Flashy as hell. Cons: It's not teleport for solo and not time warp for groups. Also, 10% conflagration bonus for parties is < 20% damage taken by enemies via time warp.

I didn't bring this up earlier but there are some alternatives here.
For solo farming act3, sns-teleport for the win: true edps is measured by clear-times. Don't knock it till you've measured it - there is a reason it's the most popular used cmwiz build. MW-Electrify would be my second choice, higher than time warp because its damage scales well with larger groups and it doesn't take up an attack turn (nobody is casting this mid-combat).
For say, 2-cmwiz group games, if the other cmwiz is SNS, I definitely would consider running a meteor build but with Molten Impact rather than Meteor Shower. This is a good team support build b/c it can at times allow for more dps if you don't need to worry about losing an attack frame freezing.
For groups > 2, it's quite difficult to argue for any other skill besides time warp as THE optimal spell. After all, let's keep things in perspective, at least two other classes regularly out-multiplier wiz's so if you're running with those classes, providing the greatest damage buff for them (20%) contributes the most to group damage.

P.S. Time Warp also slows enemies and projectiles so that portion of its ability is the same as Stretch Time. LoH only increases if you move up a breakpoint, which is the case for you specifically - you will get higher LoH. Starting from 2.74 though, there will be absolutely no increase in LoH by using Stretch Time so it's purely 10% party ias bonus vs 20% party overall damage bonus.

This post was edited by ElijahBailey on Apr 8 2013 09:46pm

https://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/tom-11244/hero/27118707

Looking for the most possible dmg increase without much of a ehp loss,

I have 3%cc mempo, its just not showin,

Well, you are not providing a counterpoint, man. Obviously, there is no use testing Time Stretch if you got 2,74 aps, why did you even bring that up. I have 2,84 aps and Time Stretch takes me to the next breakpoint, that's why I test it. Also, I already mentioned, versus mp10 ghom meteor build is less effective than bubble build, so testing it there is useless. I believe there are exactly zero situations close to environment you get at mp10 Ghom except MP10 Ghom and Ubers. Versus Azmodan and elite packs it's the most effective dps, and I have tested molten impact - it's actually less dps per run. Can you also show armory you used for meteor test?

Only good point was about edps = clear times. However, in group teleport won't help with reducing clearing time and I rarely farm solo. And even if I do, I chose areas with high mob density so I don't have to run for long from one group to another.

hello guys, this is my cm wiz.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Rowesy-1515/hero/29543527

I am currently a user of the nats duo for extra crit, i would like to upgrade my damage, any thoughts?
I am also trying to craft a trifecta ammy, no luck so far tho

Thanks

This post was edited by ianrowe1 on Apr 9 2013 09:35am