Mmm I can see we disagree Depra - I don't consider 2.51aps enough to be considered a real cmwiz, general consensus is the 2.73 as well. It would certainly makes your dps a heck of a lot easier to obtain to use a lower breakpoint, good luck with tough packs and ubers. Also - 2.51 + bubble is definitely < 2.69, which is not the next breakpoint and if you miss it by an inch, you miss it by a mile. Check your math? The bubble provides 10% aps, NOT 20, thank you.

Nat ring and boots<- What's up? For his budget, certainly. Many high-end cmwizzes run this as well. With his budget, he would welcome the extra cc here. Goal is to come close to 50%, good luck doing that with zuni tripox set on 1b budget. Can it be done? Sure. Efficiently? Prob not. +130int vs 7% cc at his level?
No bicycle pants? Certainly not. Huge EHP loss and you don't need the aps in this slot to reach 2.73, not to mention 2.5whatever. Honestly imho this slot should only be a consideration if your cmwiz is supremely geared.

With 1B it's certainly possible to buy all those items you mentioned but they are mostly all going to be crap. Instead of buying 13 crap items that you will have to replace every time you want to upgrade, why not buy 3 great items and 10 budget items? The end results are likely to be better. The vast majority of your damage comes from the wand, the force and the ammy so these are the items you don't want to skimp on.

Also - what's up with these personal attacks on d2j? Nobody can make an objective comment without ad hominem?

This post was edited by ElijahBailey on Feb 24 2013 10:51am

This is probably a pretty stupid question but since I started playing again a few months ago I've just been running archon. I can do up to 6 pretty decently and finally decided to try out the CM. http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/soles-1424/soles/803811 is my profile. Now, with the gear that's displayed, replace EF/triumvirate w a shitty 1.64 chantodos and pretty shitty will and also some blackthorns with 243 vit 12%life. Just copying what ive seen most do MP7/8 was pretty easy and my dps is only 220k buffed and thats with the chantodos set costing me 20mil total. I checked my attack speed and its 2.44 which is really low according to everything im noticing. What would the increased attckspeed change? more ticks faster LoH faster skill resets due to crit? which seems to not be a problem now. Basically im asking if I should look more toward trifect Tal Rasha's / rare ring/zuni ring OR if i should focus on getting a better chantodos set.

This post was edited by soles on Feb 24 2013 12:04pm

2,73 aps needed (u can start with bubble ofc)
before 1.0.7 black pants > inna
with new crafts not sure (personally i don't like inna's pants on wiz)

@soles: More aps will first and foremost help your multiplier. Sheet dps means quite little to a cmwiz - what is your multiplier at 2.44? (You can test vs say mp10ghom and see how long it takes you to kill vs his 138milish hp - that's your effective single-big-target dps. Or, since single-source loh may not be enough, you can test vs lower-mp ghom and look up hp values online instead). If you're running SNS, average single-target multiplier should be around 6-7 at 2.73 (your 220k sheet dps * 7 = 1.4mil edps). I'm at this aps so this is my general multiplier - in groups of elites I can burst-spike to >20x multiplier and maintain >10x after windup with multiple targets, which is pretty much all the time once you get used to it since elites come in packs, including minions. I could also put on my archon gear, have higher sheet dps but my effective dps will be much much closer to sheet dps (which isn't anywhere close to 1mil). Basically, at ~200dps and 2.73aps, you should be melting elite packs in <15s on mp8. If you find yourself taking much longer than this, consider raising aps and running sns

Additionally, aps will help your freezes, i.e. you can tank a large number of bad-affixe-elites b/c they don't move after you freeze them (vs them casting arcane/molten/plagued/desecrator/vortex and you running around). It'll make a difference in uber fights and/or solo'ing uber fights as well. Procing loh is pretty useful too! All in all, considering time spent running/dodging/whatever I think you may find higher aps to be a good tradeoff (or maybe you just aren't as lazy as many of us are :P)

This post was edited by ElijahBailey on Feb 24 2013 12:18pm

U got the point didn't u? It's easy to reach the 2,51 aps, and probably most ppl will reach a lil more which is enough to use Bubble and reach the next breakpoint or w/e u call it. And ye, it's enough.

7%cc and dex items vs int/cc/chd/all resis (even vit or avg. dmg) and int/vit/%poison (even all resis) dmg and with zuni armor way better resists. Nat is for DHs and Zuni for WD/Mages (same as Tal Rasha). Anyway what's to explain in a topic full of pro CMs...that build meant to work with 40% cc

EHP lost? Are u kidding me? I have 54k HP with Innas, is that low? And my life is low compared to what a top player can reach using Innas. Blackthorne is for MP9/10 if u don't have loh in two pieces already. And ofc u need the slot, tell me how to reach 2,73 ias w/o losing DPS cos good triforce amu/rings are expensive as hell. Anyway u can reach even 3,1 aps and 0 chd, but hey, u don't wanna deal dmg at all!

13 crap items? haha ofc ofc...it's not about dmg only, but ehp, resis and so. And these days getting a good amy/wand/force isn't hard, the problem is getting a force with apoc and a good avd.dmg and it's something to have in mind so that u can use a mempo or any helm u want.

It's about all of u acting pro and so, telling everybody what to do and so...

@elijahbailey Ok, that makes sense. I guess i started thinking about it, and @ 440k dps buffed in archon mode it was actually faster for me to laser beam EVERYTHING on mp6/7 than to teleport around in CM and just do elites. I will say i <3 the cm vs relect damage. Also, i forgot im running the scoundrel. Should I swap back to ench for the IAS? in archon form w scoundrel I'm @ like 64.5% crit chance so I'm assuming that's more than enough? I mean i asssumed that's why I could for the most part keep things perma freezed because I just ran cold snap rune and evocation. ALso, what is the formula to see what IAS on your gear you need based on your weaponAPS? I saw it somewhere on this forum but now i cant seem to find it.

@soles: I played archon for the longest time, it's what I used to level. I recently found that after the patch, it's faster xp to farm with standard sns build. I get 50-55m-ish xp/hour with archon vs 60-65ish xp/hour with cmwiz, both on alkaizer (cmwiz at higher mp, archon at lower). Try it out and see? You might like it - I know I do b/c it gets me DE/XP all-in-one

@Depra, tone it down a notch? I don't 'act pro' and you have certainly never seen me post something to the effect that 'I am one of the top cmwizzes', etc. etc. I've simply played a lot of cmwiz, read a lot and tested quite a bit as well. So I posted 2 pretty helpful links - wtf insulted you about that?

Re: APS. Certainly much easier to reach 2.5aps but it's insufficient for the breakpoint most ppl consider as 'cmwiz', myself included. I consider <2.73 as 'wizard running cmwiz skills' If you ever get comments about having bad freezes in uber carries, you know what I mean...

Re: Nat set: Nobody is arguing 'just resists'. I can see you concede the point that using zuni set means lower cc I think 50% is a better number vs 40cc is all and at his budget level, I firmly stand behind nat set. If you're procing loh 7% more often your ehp will be higher, your teleports will refresh more often and your farming efficiency will be greater even if it doesn't show in the sheets.

Re: EHP lost. Sigh, you have high hp - so what? I can too. On an apples-to-apples basis, pull up an EHP calculator and compare a inna's pants to blackthorne's. The vast majority of the time, if not always, inna's will have lower EHP. Please don't mention yourself as an example and then immediately shift to 'top player'. We can all stack vit like it's int - so what? EHP means more than just vit. Nobody is arguing that 'some' top players can pull off Inna's but it's not what I'd recommend for his budget. And no, you don't need the slot. Trifecta ammy's expensive? Sure but prices have been dropping and he can get a pretty decent one within his budget. Trifecta ring? Always expensive and not necessary (not affordable with his budget) for his build. Please don't polarize my comments, you know full well there's plenty of gray area between high aps no dmg and low aps more damage. You can certainly have decently high aps and high dmg with 1bil budget. Don't be so attached to sheet dps, cmwiz has always been about the multiplier.

This post was edited by ElijahBailey on Feb 24 2013 12:42pm

Yo, guys, chill the fk out. I got this.

Nothing can replace BT pants. Literally nothing. Stats are just too good there. Inna's + insane crafted bracers might be more damage, but you are never going to get same mitigation/ehp/loh as you are getting with BT + lacunis.

I really don't see Inna's pants being superb for any sns setup, because they are never taking you to the new breakpoints in high end setups thus 9 ias on them becomes kinda useless. I was doing some theorycrafting and best BT pants for sns wizard would be 280+vita and 350+armor (with total armor >700). At the end of the day, on pieces like tal rasha chest and blackthorne pants, high vita + high armor would be the ultimate rolls since these pieces roll the highest armor and vita rolls (along with helm and amulet, but we got Storm Crow and it's not easy finding good +armor trifecta)

This post was edited by Mad1Lee on Feb 24 2013 11:30pm

Hey guys.. i just wrote a CM guide.. could you check it out and tell me if i forgot something or did a mistake?

-> http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=66606337&f=142

This post was edited by claw89 on Feb 25 2013 12:41pm

OK, guys, which single item is next for upgrade? Budget is 140m. I think I know what it is but I don't want to bias your suggestions so I will see what you say.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Rain-1622/hero/11640801

Thank you to everyone who has been helping me with this!

As point of reference, when I swap from Archon into CM/WW skills, I have 45 cc and reach the 2.74 bp. Do to low EHP, I still have to use (but will plan to swap to match Mad1Lee's top SNS build):
Crystal Shell instead of Diamond Shards,
Cold Snap instead of Bone Chill,
Energy Armor w/ Pinpoint Barrier instead of Storm Armor w/ Shocking Aspect,
Evocation instead of Conflagration, and
Blur instead of Cold Blooded

I swap my awful hellfire ring with this one below when I do this (9ias,6cc bi-fecta).

Also, I must say, thank you to Mad1Lee for helping me figure out the placement of skills! WAY much easier on hands with his setup; in fact, doesn't hurt at all now.